The "failure" of New 52 Superman: What happened?

[Tayswift]

I wasn't putting the fault on Batman and Green Lantern. I was saying that not rebooting those franchises to the degree they rebooted everything else gave the perception that the New 52 was just a sales stunt and not the permanent new status quo that the 1986 reboot,for all it's foibles,did give that feeling of taking it seriously. It and the lack of game plan just showed DC' s lack of commitment to the whole enterprise,which with the slow but almost certain reversion to a continuity that is much like preFlashpoint,bore out the stunt nature of the whole thing. It almost feels like DC knew they'd be reverting to some degree eventually and didn't put much thought into it all.

in 1986, only superman and wonder woman were hard rebooted. in 2011, it was only green lantern and batman(that was rebooted later, eve if some parts stayed canon) that weren't hard rebooted. That was much bigger commitment than the 1986 reboot.

[Tayswift]

How was Morrison's Origin Edgy? He just retold Golden Age Superman Stories in the modren era. How is jumping off roof with Glenmorgen any different then running on power lines with a politician? The End result is the same. NuSupes was a self made Superhero, I love that HE came up with his look and philosophy unlike other Supermen. I hate how Mr. "Oz" (See I can do quotes too) is Claiming to have trained him. WHEN? We've seen New 52 Superman from the moment he was BORN, Hell we've seen him Before he was Born when Lara was still Pregnant. We've seen his time with the Kents, With the Legion, with Pete and Lana, After his Parents Died, When he got to Metropolis, When he first put on the S, when he got his Suit, when he learned to fly, when he met the Justice League, Ect. WHEN THE F DID YOU TRAIN HIM! Hell I believe Lana training him more then this Jagoff.

what is new 52 superman philosophy? beat first and ask questions later?
Morrison had superman threatening bad guys (bad guys are still people and a hero has to act better) also beating them recklessly. I don't know how nobody died

[13th Superman]

what is new 52 superman philosophy? beat first and ask questions later?
Morrison had superman threatening bad guys (bad guys are still people and a hero has to act better) also beating them recklessly. I don't know how nobody died

This is what the golden age Superman did.
superman16.jpg

[13th Superman]

This is what the golden age Superman did.
superman16.jpg

Superman001-19_zps5e724d09.jpg
This was how he acted.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I agree that writers didn't know what to do with him, and in part that's because they kept bringing on writers that basically wanted to write Post-Crisis Superman.

The Superman books desperately needed new voices, people that were new to the comic scene and didn't feel that Post-Crisis Superman was their Superman.

That and different editors so that would have actually been able to tell their stories.

[Francisco]

He was an unmitigated badass and New 52 Supes was a chip cut out of that same old tree.

[Doctor Bifrost]

In this thread I keep seeing:

- "Lack of world-building"
- "No overall plan, or no follow-through"
- "Nobody could tell Perez what Morrison was going to include"
- "No consistency of character across Superman, Action, and JLA"

I think you're all forgetting: Story Over Continuity!

Now, that never made any sense to me, because I consider continuity to be part of the story, just like dialogue, plot, and pacing are part of the story. Particularly in serial and shared-universe fiction, where continuity is one of the techniques you use to establish the narrative setting and character development over time. But whenever I've said this, I've been told that I'm just a 30-year-old virgin living in his mother's basement who's afraid of change. (Or something like that.) And I suspect DC has driven away many or most readers who are willing to discuss their interest in continuity.

But in my opinion even people who say they don't care about continuity - "only good stories!" - miss it when it's gone. It leads to haphazard storylines, lack of a cohesive character, bad follow-through, ideas not being fully thought out, and a sense that nothing that's happening in the story really matters very much. And that seems to be what a lot of people are saying here about The New 52 Superman.

I'd add my frequent tagline, "but that's just me." But I don't think it is just me.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I think you're all forgetting: Story Over Continuity!

Story over continuity came with DCYou, long after the damage to New 52 Superman had already been done.

It was also just a marketing talk. All story over continuity meant for the Superman books was that writers wouldn't have to explain when stories were taking place.

How was Superman depowered in his titles when over in Justice League he's the God of Strength? That kind of stuff.

There were no story over continuity issues for Superman when DCYou launched anymore so than usual.

[Tayswift]

This is what the golden age Superman did.
superman16.jpg

I know, and it was 70 years ago

[Vinsanity]

Inconsistency and crossovers. I thought he was the better Superman in a very, very long time. Probably not continuing with ideas. Clark's blog could have lead to a lot of stories, competition v. Lois, and so on but Johns dropped it.

[Tayswift]

I agree that writers didn't know what to do with him, and in part that's because they kept bringing on writers that basically wanted to write Post-Crisis Superman.

The Superman books desperately needed new voices, people that were new to the comic scene and didn't feel that Post-Crisis Superman was their Superman.

That and different editors so that would have actually been able to tell their stories.

I was new reader and prefered post crises. I really don't see the link that new readers cant like post crises

[misslane]

Inconsistency and crossovers. I thought he was the better Superman in a very, very long time. Probably not continuing with ideas. Clark's blog could have lead to a lot of stories, competition v. Lois, and so on but Johns dropped it.

Lobdell dropped it pretty much as soon as he started it. The blog was barely a presence in Lobdell stories or any Superman stories the entire time it existed. Johns was able to drop it because nothing had been done with it. Clark met with Cat to dismissively talk about the blog site and fried some iPads at a party. The biggest scoop Cat landed was the Superman and Wonder Woman romance expose. Lobdell had Clark quit the DP as a dramatic statement about journalistic integrity but never cared to actually explore it. Johns killed something that was already DOA.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Story over continuity came with DCYou, long after the damage to New 52 Superman had already been done.

It was also just a marketing talk. All story over continuity meant for the Superman books was that writers wouldn't have to explain when stories were taking place.

How was Superman depowered in his titles when over in Justice League he's the God of Strength? That kind of stuff.

There were no story over continuity issues for Superman when DCYou launched anymore so than usual.

a certain subset of editors, writers, and fans have been saying Story Over Continuity for a long time. And contradictions started showing up in The New 52 very early - they had not put the kind of thought and planning into it that you need if you want a rebooted version of a shared universe to be consistent. I never got the idea that they cared very much. This was not just about Superman, either - it was scattered throughout the whole line.

[Myskin]

This is why Rebirth Superman is at risk of ending in a mess in the long term.

Everything's possible, but no, I don't think that anything serious will happen to Rebirth Superman. I mean, he's a mess continuity wise (as he was pre-Flashpoint), but he is still recognizable and familiar to the fans. Whenever longtime readers sees him, they can connect him with the character whose stories they already knew and loved years ago. DC is really pushing, and counting a lot on this aspect.
The only dubious element is Jon - should he not resonate well with the readers, he's a character who will be rather difficult to get rid of - but, quite frankly, if Jon wasn't still at large, I would have zero doubt that Rebirth Superman is here to stay.

People critique Morrison's run but willing to accept this last minute made up convoluted mess about Mr Oz is ironic to me.

I am not sure if this refers to me - since I've got a feeling that I am the only one in this particular thread who is seriously critical about Morrison's run - but as far as I am concerned, Mr Oz is a mess, too.

[Kuwagaton]

But Morrison never really wrote this way on a regular basis, and the whole social crusader part was unconvincing. It is vaguely mentioned in a couple of issue at the beginning of his run, and completely forgotten in subsequent issues.

More than anything, every important idea explored in his opening arc had already appeared in earlier retelling of the origins. Superman as an outsider, Sam Lane as a main player working with Luthor, Metallo as an ex-soldier in love with Lois Lane: been there, done that in Johns' Secret Origins. And the Collector of Worlds arc is almost a retelling of Johns' Brainiac saga. Except that Morrison's Brainiac is aesthetically even uglier than musclebound Brainiac (which I don't really like, either).

I put in bold the main idea. This Superman started in media res and was a cross between all other eras, in whatever they did have to pass for a line direction. The point of the origin was in re-establishment and a lot of it, because it wasn't entirely new, just needed a callback if it wasn't necessarily a part of the story. Like the wife beater, which Fisch actually did explore. In fact, the back ups from the run explored a lot of the humanity found in the character.

The underlined part, I have to point out that we had a huge scene of mashing a pedophile in the second arc as well as the firefighter idea. Morrison gave as much as needed before going into redundancy, imo.

There are some morrisonisms here and there - there are some decent parts and even some good parts - but everything is too linear for what a Morrison comics is supposed to be, or incredibly confusing and contradictory. No middle ground.

As an experienced creator I think he understood the difference between his own comic and a mainstream origin comic he was writing for Superman. But if that's not good enough, Google the complaints people had with the last arc, lol.

Superman himself isn't entirely convincing. Morrison never really explores the sense of his mission, his desire to help people. There isn't a "year-one"- type story arc who shows how his ethics is born. Yes, I get it, it's action comics and he puts him in action from the very first page. But since he doesn't give him a proper background, the character cannot be strong and convincing in later stories.

More or less the same level of development of ethics from the first 50 years, right?

they kept bringing on writers that basically wanted to write Post-Crisis Superman.

Which is understandable since it's hard to get a job on a character you know well and then write them as someone different. But which writers do you mean?

The Superman books desperately needed new voices, people that were new to the comic scene and didn't feel that Post-Crisis Superman was their Superman.

New voices? Snyder, Bendis, Morrison, Johns, and Slott were and are the most successful. Who is telling DC that they need random and less experienced writers? New to the comics scene doesn't really warrant a top character, and people who don't feel that the character itself is the character they want to write should probably go write a character they do like. For a long while with Superman, at least on here, the question was whether or not someone "got" Superman. Landis and Morrison clearly "got" Post Crisis and have done some of the better stories of the last decade. Pak and Yang were fresh voices, some of the issues were good and some were not.

People will always clamor for hot names, like Mieville was for a second. But liking them and having a deal work out with them are two different things. Why can't they just put on Hickman? Because you... just can't "put on" Hickman, most likely.