The "failure" of New 52 Superman: What happened?

[Kid_Quantum]

I think the problem isn't with 'New 52 Superman', but fundamentally with Superman.

As in, no one really knows what to do with the character.

I've heard this chat alot. Normally runs alongside "he's boring".

But - not calling you out over this, just commenting on the thought - how can something so archetypal be so difficult to write? At it's heart, it's the same story that people have been telling each other since people could tell stories.

I'll never fail to scratch my head at the idea that no-one knows what to do with the man who can do anything.

[Johnny Thunders!]

It's a big deal that Nu 52 Superman is dead. Any Earth that loses its Superman has entered alternate reality town. Especially when a new one shows up ready made to replace. How is this not an else world's?

[Myskin]

But - not calling you out over this, just commenting on the thought - how can something so archetypal be so difficult to write? .

Seriously?
Because he's old. A very, very old character. At the peak of his success, his stories worked because they took place in an environment which was very different from the real world. They were kid-friendly, and they had the same fantastical feeling which you could find in old sit-coms such as Bewitched or I Dream of Jeannie. The depiction of justice was very simple. Or simplistic.

In a world where entertainment has become more sophisticated and complex, you can't expect to use the same approach which characterized Superman for so many decades. But they haven't found a way to replace it in a convincing way. Maybe it is just impossible.

[manofsteel1979]

Disappointed I jumped on this late, but there's some cracking chat here.

For me, Action Comics was outstanding. It was the Superman I'd been waiting for for near 20 years. Champion of the Oppressed turns Sci-Fi Superhero via a battle through time and space against the devil himself.

"Are you hurt?"

"You should see the other guy"

Holy s**t, that run totally got me

After that, it just seemed to go nowhere.

Paks stuff was really great. Some solid stories and great adventures, but the whole line just felt like it was spinning it's wheels. I'm guessing DC must have been planning the Pre-FP comeback for more years than we would have thought.

Well based on recent statements and rumblings,at least as far back as when DOOMED and Convergence were in their early planning stages ,which puts it sometime late 2013. That's not long after Morrison's run ended.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Well based on recent statements and rumblings,at least as far back as when DOOMED and Convergence were in their early planning stages ,which puts it sometime late 2013. That's not long after Morrison's run ended.

Why Doomed? From the various interviews with Jurgens it's clear they planned to bring pre-FP Supes back during the development of Convergence.

[Myskin]

Why Doomed? From the various interviews with Jurgens it's clear they planned to bring pre-FP Supes back during the development of Convergence.

Well, Mr Oz appeared at the beginning of 2014.
(I think)

[Kid_Quantum]

Seriously?
Because he's old. A very, very old character.

I find that to be nonsensical.

[Kid_Quantum]

Well based on recent statements and rumblings,at least as far back as when DOOMED and Convergence were in their early planning stages ,which puts it sometime late 2013. That's not long after Morrison's run ended.

Sounds about right, eh?

It really wouldn't surprise me.

[Myskin]

I find that to be nonsensical.

Why? Sad it may be, even cultural icons become old and die.
I can tell you with absolute certainty, right now, that there will come a day when there won't be any new Superman comic books anymore. I'm serious.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Well, Mr Oz appeared at the beginning of 2014.
(I think)

From all we know, he can be a character that has been "re-adapted" (or recycled) to work in the current storyline. We don't know what role he was to have originally.

[manofsteel1979]

Why Doomed? From the various interviews with Jurgens it's clear they planned to bring pre-FP Supes back during the development of Convergence.

Because Doomed was designed along with FUTURE'S END to lead into Convergence.

The last page of DOOMED is technically the return of Red Trunked Pre FLASHPOINT Superman , when Brainiac Prime showed his doppelganger the Bottled realities on Tellos.

[Myskin]

From all we know, he can be a character that has been "re-adapted" (or recycled) to work in the current storyline. Pretty much like Wally West, the black cousin of white Wally West.

Maybe, but I really don't think so. The "Nostalgia" tattoo appeared from the very first story Oz was featured in. People simply didn't interpret it as a hint.

[Ascended]

I will slightly disagree though that the current set up as is,will be Rebirth Superman's downfall. Now,i seriously doubt they aren't going to somehow retcon stuff so that the current Superman is the native Superman to the current continuity,but I've started to realize that detail is not all that important to a vast majority of the returning readers who sat out the Nuperman era waiting for their guy to return. Im sure you've seen me try to debate that point with others here,and honestly I'm finding that,outside of here where Nuperman wasn't hated to the degree he seemed to have been elsewhere, there's not a whole lot of concern that until they retcon or explain things,that they've cut and pasted Supermen. All that seem to matter is that the " real" Superman is back. Doesn't matter if this isn't his native earth right now or if this Luthor isn't his Luthor etc. The details don't matter and likely won't as long as their guy is back as the main star of the line.

I'm going to slightly disagree with you here.

Yes, there are people who are quite happy to have Superdad back. But I dont think they're a majority of the fandom any more than I think Nuperman fans are.

I think for the vast majority of the readership, they don't care about any particular version, if they're even overly aware that different versions exist. I think they just want good comics and whether its post-Crisis, pre-Crisis, or other, as long as they're getting quality (as they see it) they'll buy.

This is why I think the current status quo is rife with problems simmering under the surface. DC has separated Superman from his world outside of Lois and Jon. He no longer has any real connection to the Planet, its staff, the villains of the DCU and his own mythos. Continuity builds on itself, and it often goes both ways, into the future and also the past. Just as an example, we saw additions to Nuperman's rookie year in the pages of Pak's Action and Batman-Superman. Nothing done there contradicted what Morrison established and it worked fine. But as this continuity builds, it'll inevitably run into problems because Superdad and his Lois got poorly injected into this history. We've seen it before when DC has tried to retroactively reboot aspects of a franchise, and there's no reason I can see why this time will be any different. Consider the problems DC ran into when they decided to swap out Bryne's origin for what Loeb did in 2000-01 (if Bryne's Krypton was a lie how do you explain the Eradicator?), then Birthright and Secret Origin. Granted, that's a bit of an extreme example, but the principal is the same.

Right now, with these opening arcs, it hasn't been much of an issue. And Hitch is using this disconnect quite well in Justice League (at least I think so). But there are cracks in the foundation now, and as stuff gets piled on top of it those cracks are only going to grow. At some point that's going to catch up with DC and we'll find ourselves back in troubled waters. When that happens the quality is going to drop because they're going to be too busy trying to fix things instead of focusing on telling good stories, and readers will leave again.

[manofsteel1979]

Maybe, but I really don't think so. The "Nostalgia" tattoo appeared from the very first story Oz was featured in. People simply didn't interpret it as a hint.

I remember the speculation was that OZ was actually a vehicle by which to bring back Jonathan Kent,i.e. that OZ may have been Jonathan Kent himself from a timeline where Lord V didn't kill the Kents in an auto crash. All the cryptic lines about how he trained Clark etc.. That was one of many theories.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Because Doomed was designed along with FUTURE'S END to lead into Convergence.

The last page of DOOMED is technically the return of Red Trunked Pre FLASHPOINT Superman , when Brainiac Prime showed his doppelganger the Bottled realities on Tellos.

Ok, now I understand what you mean.
However, we really don't know how far back the Convergence finale was planned, Jurgens himself said about Jon and family that they initially had another ending in mind for them.
Maybe one day we'll find out. Maybe not.