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  1. #1
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    Default Greg Rucka, Lies, and Max Lord

    This just occurred to me as I was posting on the issue 5 thread, but since it encompasses multiple issues of the story so far I thought I might give it its own niche.

    Much of the LIES storyline Rucka is exploring concerns Diana not being able to rely on her memories. Almost as if her mind had been manipulated and filled with false information,

    This got me thinking - what character do we know of that Rucka has a previous fondness for and can make people believe whatever he wants. AND has a long standing grudge against Wonder Woman...

    There are, of course, two.





    Rucka used by Psycho and Max Lord during his earlier run on Wonder Woman. But It think of the two its fair to say that Max, playing a pivotal role in Sacrifice and then later in WW Blackest Night [also written by Rucka] has made the most impact on Wonder Woman's storylines over the last decade.

    And there are some strong indications that the cyborg villain we saw in the most recent issue is Brother Eye, the artificial intelligence that was working with Max and has its own personal grudge with Diana.

    Add to that the fact that with the cancellation of the book just before the onset of Infinite Crises meant that Rucka was never able to finish off the story of Wonder Woman's encounter with Max during the sacrifice.

    AND, to top it all off, just prior to Flashpoint we found that Max was NOT dead. He was resurrected as part of Blackest Night and his first order of business was to make everyone forget he had ever existed and to purse his personal vendetta against Wonder Woman...



    So to sum up -

    • shifting and unreliable memories
    • a mind warping villain with a grudge
    • who has a history of using cybernetic allies against Wonder Woman
    • and has been used by the current writer twice before
    • in a story line that was never really satisfactorily wrapped up



    Things that make you go... "Hmmmmm."
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  2. #2
    Clark & Diana Whata Team! Super-Wonder's Avatar
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    Hmmmm indeed.
    This is fascinating and something that I would love to see transpire.
    Thank you for this!
    Wonderfully Superb

  3. #3
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    That would be pretty exciting. Rucka has consistently said he wants to answer the question raised by Diana killing Max Lord, but he said that separately in the most recent interview I've heard him give (with Word Balloon podcast) from his actual plans for the title.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  4. #4
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    I can see it being Psycho (although she's usually immune to his powers).

    Maxwell Lord though... I don't see them tying this story to an 11 year old story. Besides, Lord doesn't fit into the universe. Checkmate has never existed, the JLI has never existed... Plus he was dead, Rucka killed him off. I doubt he's going to build his story around a story that weakened his own stories.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member richalex's Avatar
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    JLI did exisit in the beginning of Nu52. They didn't last long. And don't forget for some reason time shifted when Diana and Clark got together. Booster disappeared.
    Richard Alexander

  6. #6
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    I'd be happy if Max Lord never appears again in a WW comic.

    It could also be the Duke of Deception messing with Diana.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member richalex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I'd be happy if Max Lord never appears again in a WW comic.

    It could also be the Duke of Deception messing with Diana.
    The Duke, Psycho, and Cyber in control of Brother Eye would be most interesting to me.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    This just occurred to me as I was posting on the issue 5 thread, but since it encompasses multiple issues of the story so far I thought I might give it its own niche.

    Much of the LIES storyline Rucka is exploring concerns Diana not being able to rely on her memories. Almost as if her mind had been manipulated and filled with false information,

    This got me thinking - what character do we know of that Rucka has a previous fondness for and can make people believe whatever he wants. AND has a long standing grudge against Wonder Woman...

    There are, of course, two.





    Rucka used by Psycho and Max Lord during his earlier run on Wonder Woman. But It think of the two its fair to say that Max, playing a pivotal role in Sacrifice and then later in WW Blackest Night [also written by Rucka] has made the most impact on Wonder Woman's storylines over the last decade.

    And there are some strong indications that the cyborg villain we saw in the most recent issue is Brother Eye, the artificial intelligence that was working with Max and has its own personal grudge with Diana.

    Add to that the fact that with the cancellation of the book just before the onset of Infinite Crises meant that Rucka was never able to finish off the story of Wonder Woman's encounter with Max during the sacrifice.

    AND, to top it all off, just prior to Flashpoint we found that Max was NOT dead. He was resurrected as part of Blackest Night and his first order of business was to make everyone forget he had ever existed and to purse his personal vendetta against Wonder Woman...



    So to sum up -

    • shifting and unreliable memories
    • a mind warping villain with a grudge
    • who has a history of using cybernetic allies against Wonder Woman
    • and has been used by the current writer twice before
    • in a story line that was never really satisfactorily wrapped up



    Things that make you go... "Hmmmmm."
    It's a possibility. I would say that I tend to think a writer of Rucka's capability is more likely to move forward than go back to the "archive" with something like this. Seems a little strange for him to want to go back to such an old story to tie up loose ends that don't really matter anymore. Of course we have no idea how deeply Rebirth is going to change/undo N52, heck they may even decide to undo older changes ... lots of possibility. Brother Eye might well be involved, but it seems more like Dr. Cyber is about to make a reappearance, possibly somehow connected to Brother Eye???

    I believe Rucka has also spoken about using Dr. Psycho, but specifically said that was "farther down the road" ... with the context being he had pretty well sketched out Lies and Year One so I don't think Psycho is our person messing with her mind. Honestly I kind of feel like the answer to this one is that DC has a larger plan in mind ... I haven't been reading a lot outside of WW lately so I'm not sure, but it feels like Rebirth is all tied together with something to do with Dr. Manhattan messing with the whole DCU in someway? Not sure if that's what's going on specifically with Diana in Lies or if that was just so much internet rumor.

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I REALLY hope it has nothing to do with Lord. In fact I'm desperately hoping that pretty much everything from circa 2005 onward is ignored across DC's board even when the missing years are restored. Now, that's not to say I think the theory isn't sound, I don't mean to make it sound like brett is talking crazy talk. He's not, its definitely something to be considered. I just don't want it because I didn't like the storyline is all.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Sacred Knight. I see this as a distinct possibility, but I would rather Maxwell Lord never again appear in the pages of Wonder Woman. The Duke of Deception or Psycho would be vastly preferable.

  11. #11
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    Max had messed with Diana as he erased her memory and other peoples memories to make everyone forget her so it is doubtful that it will be Max doing a repeat act.

  12. #12
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    I once offered a theory that DC's version of Heracles might have altered reality in a scheme to ruin Diana's life out of jealousy of her being more revered as a hero than he.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius View Post
    It's a possibility. I would say that I tend to think a writer of Rucka's capability is more likely to move forward than go back to the "archive" with something like this. Seems a little strange for him to want to go back to such an old story to tie up loose ends that don't really matter anymore. Of course we have no idea how deeply Rebirth is going to change/undo N52, heck they may even decide to undo older changes ... lots of possibility. Brother Eye might well be involved, but it seems more like Dr. Cyber is about to make a reappearance, possibly somehow connected to Brother Eye???

    I believe Rucka has also spoken about using Dr. Psycho, but specifically said that was "farther down the road" ... with the context being he had pretty well sketched out Lies and Year One so I don't think Psycho is our person messing with her mind. Honestly I kind of feel like the answer to this one is that DC has a larger plan in mind ... I haven't been reading a lot outside of WW lately so I'm not sure, but it feels like Rebirth is all tied together with something to do with Dr. Manhattan messing with the whole DCU in someway? Not sure if that's what's going on specifically with Diana in Lies or if that was just so much internet rumor.
    wonder woman case seems very wonder woman villain specific, not doc manhattan.


    I don't think this is a Max lord thing, seems like a really big plan. maybe it is more than one villain, but we already know there is a tech villain involved on Lies

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I can see it being Psycho (although she's usually immune to his powers).

    Maxwell Lord though... I don't see them tying this story to an 11 year old story. Besides, Lord doesn't fit into the universe. Checkmate has never existed, the JLI has never existed... Plus he was dead, Rucka killed him off. I doubt he's going to build his story around a story that weakened his own stories.
    Is it that checkmate never existed, or will it be written that it DID exist and Max forced everyone to forget about it.

    As for the JLI, folks need to remember that Booster DID exist in the New52.

    Quote Originally Posted by richalex View Post
    JLI did exisit in the beginning of Nu52. They didn't last long. And don't forget for some reason time shifted when Diana and Clark got together. Booster disappeared.
    Exactly.

    As stated by richalex, Booster appeared just after Wonder Wonan and Superman got together in JL#12, but he seemed to have his pre-Flashpoint memories intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I have to agree with Sacred Knight. I see this as a distinct possibility, but I would rather Maxwell Lord never again appear in the pages of Wonder Woman. The Duke of Deception or Psycho would be vastly preferable.
    But... If folks are entertaining the possibility that OMAC and Brother Eye could be linked to the reboot of Dr Cyber, is in not equally plausible that Max Lord, mind warping illusionist, could become the modern Duke of Deception?
    Last edited by brettc1; 09-13-2016 at 12:38 AM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  15. #15
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    In that Word Balloon podast from just after Rebirth was announced, Rucka said this (around 75 or 76 minutes in, I think):

    “You know, Max is around in the New 52—he’s, he;s, around in this rebirth story. At some point in this story, there ‘s got to be a moment where they’e face to face. Because for my own peace of mind I need to resolve that.”

    Almost in the same breath, also said that following up on his first run couldn't be the main point of his new run, so to use someone like Max he'd have to find a place where he could fit integrally into the story. So IF he was being pretty straightforward, I'd say we're going to see Max but probably not as the Big Bad. Maybe the Big Bad will be someone (Dr. Cyber?) who has salvaged Brother Eye tech, and Diana will need some info from Max to beat that tech, or something like that.

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