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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Is it that checkmate never existed, or will it be written that it DID exist and Max forced everyone to forget about it.
    How does that work?
    All those Checkmate agents suddenly wondering what they've been doing with their lives all this time? And why there's fancy uniforms in their closet? And why they keep getting an automated paycheck from something called "Checkmate"? Nobody in congress is going to wonfer why they've allocated a cool billion to something called Chackmate? And what about all those people his powers flatout don't work on, like Checkmate's AIs?s

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    How does that work?
    All those Checkmate agents suddenly wondering what they've been doing with their lives all this time? And why there's fancy uniforms in their closet? And why they keep getting an automated paycheck from something called "Checkmate"? Nobody in congress is going to wonfer why they've allocated a cool billion to something called Chackmate? And what about all those people his powers flatout don't work on, like Checkmate's AIs?s
    I don't know about Max having made people forget Checkmate. But considering that Sasha has that scar around her eye and apparently also some kind of a cybernetic master, I'd guess now that more of her history with Brother Eye (and thus probably her history with Checkmate) is intact than we might have guessed before. It could be that in an issue or two characters will be talking about Checkmate as if it had been there all along, with most of its activities dating back to that convenient five-year gap in New 52 history. That way, there may not be a need for too much explanation of why we haven't seen this continuity's Checkmate until now (assuming that we really haven't. By the way, I kind of thought there had been some mention of them, but I can't place where.)

    Or, it could be that "The Lies" has to do with different timelines having converged, so that Diana, and perhaps others, remember bits and pieces of multiple, conflicting histories. Maybe the Sasha in this story is pre-Flashpoint--and maybe the pre-Flashpoint Max will come into the story as well.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    How does that work?
    All those Checkmate agents suddenly wondering what they've been doing with their lives all this time? And why there's fancy uniforms in their closet? And why they keep getting an automated paycheck from something called "Checkmate"? Nobody in congress is going to wonfer why they've allocated a cool billion to something called Chackmate? And what about all those people his powers flatout don't work on, like Checkmate's AIs?s
    If we go back to the Justice League Generation Lost story, when Max erased sll knowledge of his existence there was physical evidence left behind, like video footage of him doing various things. But whenever somebody looked at it they saw somebody else. Their brains were programmed to ignore him.

    Similarly, whenever people like Powergirl or Dick Grsyson began questioning inconsistencies in the illusion, they would suddenly forget whst they were talking about.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    If we go back to the Justice League Generation Lost story, when Max erased sll knowledge of his existence there was physical evidence left behind, like video footage of him doing various things. But whenever somebody looked at it they saw somebody else. Their brains were programmed to ignore him.

    Similarly, whenever people like Powergirl or Dick Grsyson began questioning inconsistencies in the illusion, they would suddenly forget whst they were talking about.
    Still doesn't take into account the existance of people immune to his powers (because they're robots or whatever).
    Also, the entire Justice League Generation Lost story is mindbogglingly stupid anyway in conception alone, nevermind execution.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Still doesn't take into account the existance of people immune to his powers (because they're robots or whatever).
    Also, the entire Justice League Generation Lost story is mindbogglingly stupid anyway in conception alone, nevermind execution.
    I thought it was actually quite clever.

    As for how you overcome robotic entities and computer data-bases... well gosh, I think having a super powerful A.I. on your side might help with that.

    And look, there's one now in issue 5
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    I don't know about Max having made people forget Checkmate. But considering that Sasha has that scar around her eye and apparently also some kind of a cybernetic master, I'd guess now that more of her history with Brother Eye (and thus probably her history with Checkmate) is intact than we might have guessed before. It could be that in an issue or two characters will be talking about Checkmate as if it had been there all along, with most of its activities dating back to that convenient five-year gap in New 52 history. That way, there may not be a need for too much explanation of why we haven't seen this continuity's Checkmate until now (assuming that we really haven't. By the way, I kind of thought there had been some mention of them, but I can't place where.)

    Or, it could be that "The Lies" has to do with different timelines having converged, so that Diana, and perhaps others, remember bits and pieces of multiple, conflicting histories. Maybe the Sasha in this story is pre-Flashpoint--and maybe the pre-Flashpoint Max will come into the story as well.
    All these things are possible.

    I didn't follow the entire Generation Lost story, but is it not the case that time travel was involved there too? Didn't Booster travel to a future where Max had taken over the world?

    Booster's perception of time certainly didn't seem affected by the Flashpoint events.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  7. #22
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    Lord coming back could be good, actually. I'd withhold judgment, but obviously Sasha Bordeaux being back in the picture could lead there in a lot of ways very easily for Rucka if he wants to play that story out. And if Wonder Woman is somehow the central repository of "Ruckaverse" type storylines, picking up the threads of his fantastic Checkmate run, albeit streamlined and shorn of the connections to every other superhero franchise ever, could be pretty great. Jessica Midnight would be fun to see, for instance.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    Lord coming back could be good, actually. I'd withhold judgment, but obviously Sasha Bordeaux being back in the picture could lead there in a lot of ways very easily for Rucka if he wants to play that story out. And if Wonder Woman is somehow the central repository of "Ruckaverse" type storylines, picking up the threads of his fantastic Checkmate run, albeit streamlined and shorn of the connections to every other superhero franchise ever, could be pretty great. Jessica Midnight would be fun to see, for instance.
    Heh - Ruckaverse VS Azzarelloverse.

    For pretty much every WW fan thinks there is nothing between them.

    (Finch was the run between them - see what I did there? )
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

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