What is the appeal of "Superdad"?

[Sacred Knight]

The pessimist in me wants to say that I still can only see them devoting a solo-mythos weekly project like Batman Eternal to, well, Batman. I don't know if they'd devote a year-long weekly to Superman, I honestly don't.

[Ascended]

You're kidding yourself if you think that it can be done without seeming even remotely creepy.

Oh, I dont think it can be done. Dont get me wrong, I might be enjoying the one Super-book Im reading but this direction, or more appropriately how we got here, is not something I really agree with and I think it'll end up blowing up in DC's face.

If they plan on building a new supporting cast, that does resolve that particular problem. I hadn't heard that, but I wouldn't be surprised. But does DC expect to find success with a Superman who no longer has strong connections to the Planet and his traditional supporting cast? Perhaps it can be done, but I think they might be underestimating the importance of those characters to the mythos.

But still: if I had wanted to get to roughly the place they were headed - more mature Superman, Superman and Lois married with a ten-year-old kid - I would have picked a different route.

I'd have just done a time travel story or something. If DC wanted a older Superman who had a wife and kid there are a billion ways to get there that would be less convoluted than what they ended up doing.

[Ascended]

The pessimist in me wants to say that I still can only see them devoting a solo-mythos weekly project like Batman Eternal to, well, Batman. I don't know if they'd devote a year-long weekly to Superman, I honestly don't.

I dont think its completely out of the realm of possibility. It might be hard to see, but Superman has recovered a lot from the 00's. At one point he was down to two books and nothing else, but not too long ago we had four monthlies and a string of mini's running from Unchained to American Alien to Coming of the Supermen, all with high profile creators. Sales have been stronger than they have been in years (outside of 2015) and despite the mixed reviews the movies have made respectable profit. And I want to say that I read somewhere that merchandise sales were up too, though I might be wrong about that.

I dont think its likely, and Batman would almost certainly be a regular part of the story, but a weekly is more likely now than it was a few years ago. Though honestly, DC can barely get the character halfway right on the monthly books, Im not sure if I trust them to juggle a weekly. Hell, I dont trust them with the monthlies.

[Truman Burbank]

Oh yeah 1,000%. Krypto is just there, and you'd be kidding yourself if you thought he wasn't Superdad's/super family's dog now. To a slightly lesser degree you can look at the new Eradicator. That guy is absolutely NOT the new 52 Eradicator.

I bet money we'll never get an reason for Krypto, and we will NEVER heard from Lobdell's Eradicator ever again. Pretty soon we're gonna get the big "fix it all" issue(s) and Kara will be Superdad's cousin/Jon's aunt, Sam Lane will either never be seen again because he's dead or Lois' dad will be alive again, and so on and so on.

They likely had a get outta jail free card at the ready, but after the surprising success they seem to have put "make Superdad part of the world" on to the fast track.

Sam Lane has already shown up in Batman, with ties to Amanda Waller.

[Jim Kelly]

I think the jargon skews how you see this Superman. If you call him "Superdad" that reveals a certain attitude toward the character--a bit mockish and seeing him primarily as this daddy figure--whereas if you call him Jurgens Superman or '90s Superman that reveals a different perspective on the character.

That Lois and Clark have a son is just the next logical step for the '90s Superman, who was always progressing in his relationship with Lois and certainly (once they were married) wanted to have a child with her if he could work out the scientific challenge of doing so. So I think calling him "Superdad" reveals a certain tunnel-vision about the concept and not understanding that he's a much more developed character than just that.

Yet for myself, I never liked the Jurgens Superman that much--he was just the only one we had so I had to accept him. And I never got into the new 52 Superman, either. So I don't care. I just think it's very convoluted to have the main Superman being a Superman from another Earth now living on this Earth with a complex back story that didn't happen on this Earth but the other Earth while another Superman existed on this Earth and there are all these doppelgangers and pretenders running around and nobody knows what's going on.

I thought Rebirth was supposed to be a jumping on point. For some other DC characters that's what it is. So I don't understand why they're making it so difficult to get into Superman. If he was a character who was doing well in sales--like Batman--then I could see the risk being taken. I don't see how throwing all this at the reader is going to increase sales for the already floundering Man of Steel.

But it makes sense to go back to the '90s Superman, because that's when Superman's sales were strong and there was a clear direction for the character. It leapfrogs over the last fifteen years when Superman has been in development hell. However, it commits the same error all over again, because it takes that Superman out of his own world and puts him on the wrong world--the screwed up new DCU world where continuity makes no sense.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Oh, I dont think it can be done. Dont get me wrong, I might be enjoying the one Super-book Im reading but this direction, or more appropriately how we got here, is not something I really agree with and I think it'll end up blowing up in DC's face.

I think the same.

If they plan on building a new supporting cast, that does resolve that particular problem. I hadn't heard that, but I wouldn't be surprised. But does DC expect to find success with a Superman who no longer has strong connections to the Planet and his traditional supporting cast? Perhaps it can be done, but I think they might be underestimating the importance of those characters to the mythos.

We've already seen part of his cast: Bibbo and the blonde girl (and her family) in the neighborhood that seems is going to be Jon's Lana. Jon can't be a "Superboy" without a childhood sweetheart and growing up on a farm with his parents while he discovers his powers. Like father like son.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

If he is, in fact, the pre-Flashpoint Superman, then that would mean we're back to the convoluted history that tries to combine everything even if it doesn't make sense. So why are people so eager to have this version back? Is it just the marriage? Or is it also an age factor?

I think what some people have said here, about that Superman being the one they invested decades in, and that one being the star of some of their favorite stories, is pretty much on point. Superdad being self-assured and seasoned I don't see as a factor. Superdad has had his plate full of self-doubt moments. And as for him being seasoned, I personally don't care. Something key that someone mentioned on this thread is that this character was "allowed to grow". Which is what new52 Superman lacked, because DC simply didn't have the balls and chickened out. And the other thing, WRITING.

[superduperman]

Well, let me ask this: Has DC just given up on new readers? If DC has decided to go back to the previous version of the character, does this mean they are admitting that they can't get young people to pick up comics?

[Tayswift]

Well, let me ask this: Has DC just given up on new readers? If DC has decided to go back to the previous version of the character, does this mean they are admitting that they can't get young people to pick up comics?

No. new readers will get a new #1 with a new story starting

[Ascended]

I think the jargon skews how you see this Superman. If you call him "Superdad" that reveals a certain attitude toward the character--a bit mockish and seeing him primarily as this daddy figure--whereas if you call him Jurgens Superman or '90s Superman that reveals a different perspective on the character.

That Lois and Clark have a son is just the next logical step for the '90s Superman, who was always progressing in his relationship with Lois and certainly (once they were married) wanted to have a child with her if he could work out the scientific challenge of doing so. So I think calling him "Superdad" reveals a certain tunnel-vision about the concept and not understanding that he's a much more developed character than just that.

Yet for myself, I never liked the Jurgens Superman that much--he was just the only one we had so I had to accept him. And I never got into the new 52 Superman, either. So I don't care. I just think it's very convoluted to have the main Superman being a Superman from another Earth now living on this Earth with a complex back story that didn't happen on this Earth but the other Earth while another Superman existed on this Earth and there are all these doppelgangers and pretenders running around and nobody knows what's going on.

I thought Rebirth was supposed to be a jumping on point. For some other DC characters that's what it is. So I don't understand why they're making it so difficult to get into Superman. If he was a character who was doing well in sales--like Batman--then I could see the risk being taken. I don't see how throwing all this at the reader is going to increase sales for the already floundering Man of Steel.

But it makes sense to go back to the '90s Superman, because that's when Superman's sales were strong and there was a clear direction for the character. It leapfrogs over the last fifteen years when Superman has been in development hell. However, it commits the same error all over again, because it takes that Superman out of his own world and puts him on the wrong world--the screwed up new DCU world where continuity makes no sense.

I coined the term "Superdad" in part to be mocking, but mostly as a shorthand to differentiate between that version and the New52 version. I likewise use "Nuperman" when talking about the New52 Superman (it started out as a derogatory name, but we're taking it back!). Its mostly just for ease-of-use, the mocking part was just a little extra. Though as I said, Im slowly starting to warm up to this version since (so far!) he lacks many of the failings that made me hate post-Crisis so much.

As for going back to the 90's version of Superman because he sold well back then.....I dont think that carries any water. Superman has sold well for the majority of his 80 year publication history. If you wanted the highest selling version you'd likely have to go back to the Golden Age or early-mid Silver Age. Now, you might argue that "those were different times!" but the same can be said for a version of the character that is over twenty years old too. The industry and society are different now than they were back in 93-94 (the height of the Triangle era sales I believe), and for a lot of people, the twenty-plus years since then means those stories could have happened sixty years ago for all the difference it would make to them (kids these days!) Sure, us fans who were around back then might have some nostalgic favor for that era, but I doubt there are enough of us left to carry a successful book, much less increase sales. If that were the case sales never would have tanked back in the day in the first place.

It seems to me that DC retreated back to Superdad because he was someone's favorite version. We know now that these plans were in the works long before sales began to get worrisome with DCYOU, so money was not a factor. We know that the fanbase was not a factor because Nuperman was making solid money, which means plenty of people were buying. The only reason I can see for Superdad returning is because someone in management, likely Johns, has a hard-on for that version and nagged until they got their way (much as EVS nagged for Barry Allen's return).

[Sacred Knight]

Totally agree. Someone with power just pushed for this Superman back and was stubborn about going so far as to differentiate the versions completely, unlike every other character in the verse. There's only a two or three people who have that ability, and I too would imagine it was Johns. Whether it was him or not though who had ultimate say, we all as Superman fans can only pray that his influence over this Superman is minimal. Johns is Superman poison regardless of the version. Everything that's good about him as a writer does a 180 when his attention turns to Superman. It perplexes me to this day why someone with his talent history misses the mark so badly with the most iconic superhero of all time, but here we are.

[manofsteel1979]

Totally agree. Someone with power just pushed for this Superman back and was stubborn about going so far as to differentiate the versions completely, unlike every other character in the verse. There's only a two or three people who have that ability, and I too would imagine it was Johns. Whether it was him or not though who had ultimate say, we all as Superman fans can only pray that his influence over this Superman is minimal. Johns is Superman poison regardless of the version. Everything that's good about him as a writer does a 180 when his attention turns to Superman. It perplexes me to this day why someone with his talent history misses the mark so badly with the most iconic superhero of all time, but here we are.

The mystifying thing is he gets almost every other element of Superman pretty well... except for Superman himself. It's like he can't see past Dick Donner ,Chris Reeve and every negative element of the post Crisis Superman. He wrote a decent Lex/Superman dynamic in JL and does pretty well with Lois and their dynamic. Its just with Superman himself he just suddenly becomes a rookie writer it seems.His brief run on Nuperman with JrJr wasn't complete crap...but he seemed to struggle.

Oh and his SMALLVILLE episodes were pretty good too,but that was because his focus was on other characters even there (The Legion,the JSA,Booster Gold and Blue Beetle) and less on Clark himself.

[Jim Kelly]

It seems like DC is always planning ahead for what they're going to do after the current version of Superman fails. They seem to have been planning the new 52 Superman even before JMS did his Superman. They seem to have been planning the JMS Superman while New Krypton was going on. They seem to have planned New Krypton just as Geoff Johns and Gary Frank were beginning their ACTION run (the last time I really loved Superman and I was sad to see it end so abruptly).

I guess we got the '90s Superman rather than the '60s or '70s Superman, because Jurgens was still around and willing to do it. I suppose they could get Marty Pasko to write Superman (and maybe plead for Cary Bates and Elliot Maggin to return, as well). For artists, they could get Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, Jim Starlin, Joe Staton and Neal Adams. If they did that, I'd be extremely happy--but maybe I'd be the only one.

[Johnny Thunders!]

It seems like DC is always planning ahead for what they're going to do after the current version of Superman fails. They seem to have been planning the new 52 Superman even before JMS did his Superman. They seem to have been planning the JMS Superman while New Krypton was going on. They seem to have planned New Krypton just as Geoff Johns and Gary Frank were beginning their ACTION run (the last time I really loved Superman and I was sad to see it end so abruptly).

I guess we got the '90s Superman rather than the '60s or '70s Superman, because Jurgens was still around and willing to do it. I suppose they could get Marty Pasko to write Superman (and maybe plead for Cary Bates and Elliot Maggin to return, as well). For artists, they could get Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, Jim Starlin, Joe Staton and Neal Adams. If they did that, I'd be extremely happy--but maybe I'd be the only one.

Well Cary Bates did a pretty solid Elseworlds awhile back. I think Garcia Lopez with Maggin/Bates would make a nice limited series. It's unbelievable where Superman is now. Should he be married? How smart can he be? How fast can he be? How much of Krypton can he appreciate? Should he remember anything? Hes an alien. He's just like us. He's nothing like us. I just am not convinced that the 86 reboot solved any problems.

Jurgens Superman today is not the same as the one from the 90s. Superman today, under Jurgens, is much more like Bronze Age Superman than ever before. I think Jurgens has adjusted for the criticism post crisis Supes has gotten.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Well, let me ask this: Has DC just given up on new readers? If DC has decided to go back to the previous version of the character, does this mean they are admitting that they can't get young people to pick up comics?

Perhaps they think that a Superman who is experienced and has some maturity, is married to Lois Lane, and has a 10-year-old son (which is a new element, no matter how much we say "this is the pre-Flashpoint Superman") is something that new readers will enjoy more than they would enjoy the Superman who emerged from The New 52 reboot. He's a character; he has some traits; maybe readers will like that character - both old and new readers, although possibly for different reasons. (It's not like any two readers have exactly the same response to things anyway.)

They may be right.