Alan Moore Criticizes Modern Superhero Stories as ‘Unhealthy Escapism’

[Cloudman]

earlier, you advised other people in the thread to "slow their roll." maybe take your own advice. I said that his actions remind me of Bill Cosby instructing black people how to live their lives. I noted that Bill Cosby ended up being a huge hypocrite. I never wished anything on anyone.

That's a pretty weird link to draw unless you have some information about Alan Moore that no one else does. As it is, I've met him briefly and he's a very courteous chap about whom nobody had a bad word. If you're going to make illogical, unflattering comparisons between people you don't like and alleged serial rapists, you should get some thicker skin when it comes to being criticised for your own character.

[Michael Watkins]

That's a pretty weird link to draw unless you have some information about Alan Moore that no one else does. As it is, I've met him briefly and he's a very courteous chap about whom nobody had a bad word. If you're going to make illogical, unflattering comparisons between people you don't like and alleged serial rapists, you should get some thicker skin when it comes to being criticised for your own character.

how's the air up on that horse? I could mention his use of a minstrel show character in league of extraordinary gentlemen. but I really don't want to discuss this, any further.

[CliffHanger2]

He musta forgot he wrote killing joke talk about unhealthy escapism.

[CentralPower]

Maybe the moderators could merge this with the Alan Moore thread in the DC forums? (If nothing else, most of Moore's defining work has been for DC.)

[shooshoomanjoe]

Just another irrelevant writer that tries to stay contemporary by being controversial.

[jwatson]

Just another irrelevant writer that tries to stay contemporary by being controversial.

Didn't he say he was done with interviews back in 2014 when the whole thing about him writing about women being raped all the time and how he used a racially insensitive character to shine light on something? So i don't even know why this interview exists. I mean nothing against the guy, i personally have never bought any of his work as he doesn't write for or appeal to me but this interview feels like it shouldn't exist based on his own defense of himself back then.

[gurkle]

He musta forgot he wrote killing joke talk about unhealthy escapism.

Moore doesn't like The Killing Joke, as he has said many times, because he now doesn't think Batman and the Joker should be doing dark and "mature" stories. He feels they are basically children's characters and should remain children's characters, which is why he prefers the Batman and Superman of his childhood.

That's something we can agree or disagree with, but people like what they like. But one reason Watchmen works is that DC would not allow him to use existing superhero characters, so he had to make up his own, and that means the story isn't trying to dump on "real" characters that real children might have liked.

[Grapeweasel]

Does Alan Moore have an opinion on clouds?

[CentralPower]

Let's not talk nonsense. Providence - currently published by Avatar - is better and finer than literally every single comic book currently published by DC and Marvel.

Wait, Moore (who wants simplistic kiddie-fodder is publishing through a company that is known for r-rated shock value?

I find the comments rather amusing, coming from a man who believes himself to be an actual magician.

Somebody had to say it.

Did the call us "emotional Sub-normal" or something like that?

Yup, our mental stability by a man who is (by some accounts) reluctant to leave his home because he cannot deal with the world.

And it's very difficult to disagree with what's he's saying here. As the world is becoming ever complicated, our culture seems to be retreating into escapism in the form of childhood nostalgia to avoid dealing with the very real adult problems we have. However, this is not exclusive to nerd culture, the non-geek world does it just as much with celebrity gossip, reality TV nonsense or sports. Our political discussion has so little to do with actual ideas or discussion of policies, it may as well be another reality TV show.

That sounds more conspiratorial than what is more likely the case.

Most people like to be entertained and comfortable. Look at the magazine rack at your local supermarket or drug store. Do you think that fashion and celebrity magazines are there to draw attention away from news magazines, or that they simply sell better?

Rupert Murdoch has a fetish for newspapers. But, he makes money from entertainment.

Reality is quite unpleasant so childish fantasy of comic books and other sources, and religions will always be popular.

That is as much a problem with people as with the world though.

Hiding from something does not make it better. I have little time for people who say "the news is depressing" (or variations of that theme). Similarly, maybe people who need comics to make big ideas accessible do not need to be sitting at the grown-up table. (I like idea based comics. But, they should not be one's primary exposure to new/big ideas.)

"Escapism" (a way to get away from the world, possibly because somebody cannot handle it) is dubious. But, there is a difference between escapism and entertainment value. And, not all comic readers are unable to deal with the world.

Generally speaking, if you disagree that the emotional maturity of our society is not charting the Idiocracy route, I would remind everyone that dick jokes are now acceptable presidential debate topics.

........

I told a friend of mine about that, the day after Trump refuted Rubio's erectile innuendo. I said something like "dude, you will never guess where the debates went last night". My friend sarcastically guessed that Trump "whipped it out" and asked people to admire his Trumpenstick. When I replied that his guess was not far off, he was less surprised than he wanted to be.

"What are these movies doing other than entertaining us with stories and characters that were meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of 50 years ago? Are we supposed to somehow embody these characters? That’s ridiculous. They are not characters that can possibly exist in the real world. ... It’s obvious they stand for nothing other than the power of the imagination."

Superheros of today are not the same characters they were in the 60s or before. (Yes, they are the same names. But, they are not the same characters, any more than Mickey Mouse is the same as the Mickey from "Steamboat Willy".)

They didn't evolve past Watchmen and they haven't fed the needs of children either. I think AM was hoping the art form would mature but also be unafraid of entertaining kids as well.

Comics should have evolved past "Watchmen". As I said above, I give Moore credit for raising the bar with "Watchmen". It was not the first comic to have big ideas. But, it was the first time that a concerted effort was made to avoid redundant and bloated descriptions and dialogue while focusing on breakdowns. Those things are assumed now. It took the industry at large far too long to catch up to that standard.

But, Moore seems to want comics to regress to the Silver/Age.

And could Moore create another Watchmen? Certainly not. It's a gigantic piece of work, a young man's oeuvre. Complex almost to the point of ridiculousness. AM wouldn't have the energy to birth something of that size.

I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not.

But, Moore has spent enough time distancing himself from the industry, and being a writer, that he should have less to say about the industry. Morrison is not that much younger than Moore. (Morrison could have an AARP card. Dunno if he does.) But, Morrison takes breaks and comes back. Morrison has heat with a few people in the industry (Millar most venomously, Quesada most amusingly). But, even at his worst, he can still put up or shut up.

Why would anyone write for Nickelodeon? the Disney Channel? Should someone like Roald Dahl be discounted then?

Money. Nothing wrong with that. But, money.

And, I do not bother with any of those thing because they do not interest me. There is nothing wrong with kid content. But, I would not bother with it any more than I would dismiss all modern comics as moron-fodder.

[Lee]

People who believe they have magic like powers or have some type of access to the powers from the gods are pretty common since majority of humans are quite religious. There are many geniuses in history who were quite religious or spiritual. The scientist Isaac Newton was quite religious and some of his beliefs probably look stupid to many current humans.

And it would be just as silly if it were the Pope chastising people for enjoying fantasy fiction.

[CliffHanger2]

Moore doesn't like The Killing Joke, as he has said many times, because he now doesn't think Batman and the Joker should be doing dark and "mature" stories. He feels they are basically children's characters and should remain children's characters, which is why he prefers the Batman and Superman of his childhood.

That's something we can agree or disagree with, but people like what they like. But one reason Watchmen works is that DC would not allow him to use existing superhero characters, so he had to make up his own, and that means the story isn't trying to dump on "real" characters that real children might have liked.

Yeah I know I'm just saying is he really the guy to be criticizing ppl for unhealthy escapism? It's like you said ppl like what they like.

[Mia]

“People have been saying since the mid-’80s that ‘comics have grown up.’ I don’t think that’s factually true. I think what happened was that there have been a couple of comics that seemed to be reaching for a more mature readership, and that has coincided with the emotional age of the mass audience coming the other way.”

This in and of itself tells me he hasn't a clue in hell what he is talking about. I am sure that there are a few comic book collectors who are like the comic book guy on the Simpsons. But most of the collectors I know have spouses, kids and successful careers. While I agree that many books aren't as well written as they used to be. I have read many comic books that are far better written than what ends up on the NYT best seller list.

I began collecting comic books in my last year in HS and have been reading them off an on since. I am not shy to say that I read comic books for inspiration. To read abut men and women who behave like fully loaded grown ups. Who can check their egos and self interests and do the right thing. That's not adolescent attitude. Grousing and venting venom like Moore is doing is adolescent.

[cgh]

He's right, though peevishly so. Comics are demonstrably written for adults because kids don't read them anymore. And he's right about them being characters that were originally created for kids and teens.

Where he's wrong is implying there is something wrong with this. So a bunch of grown-up guys and, increasingly, women like to read about people in tights who punch each other. Maybe it's a sign of some arrested development thing, maybe not. Either way, who cares? It harms no one and it's a fun hobby. People like what they like and in the end, when we are all lying on our deathbeds looking back at our lives, maybe we'll see that reading these nutty serial adventures enriched our lives, and that's a good enough reason to declare it time well wasted.

[Byakko]

Funny thing, I feel that there's too much 'real-life' in comics now. Especially politics.

The only true escapist comic series I'm collecting is Busiek'a Astro City. Specifically because it's far removed from our world, and doggedly and nostalgically optimistic.

So yeah, dunno what Moore's smoking.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Alan Moore criticizes the comic industry. In other shocking news, grass is green.

On second thought I want to actually try to add to the discussion lol.

While I don't think escapism itself is a problem, I will say the only comic community has been insanely toxic just the same. I noticed this especially with your more polarizing writers like Bendis and Slott and even Nick Spencer recently. They write a comicbook you don't like? Fine, shake it off and don't read it. But then there's the people taking these comics as some type of personal indictment or sleight against them. And this leads to incessantly spewing venom at creators. That type of behavior should not be acceptable or defended.