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  1. #16
    BANNED colonyofcells's Avatar
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    Comics can be about anything as seen in web comics and Dc probably just needs to expand into other types of stories.

  2. #17
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    I wonder what he considers unhealthy escapism.
    For me personally that would be stuff like the gaming addiction (hold your horses and hear me out, I play videogames myself) that often befalls MMORPG's Players. When their second live slowly but surely replaces any other social interaction outside of their Ingame world.

    I could also see how someone would consider Stuff like the Twilight books unhealthy because it includes problematic messages (no it's not romantic to break into someones home and watch them sleep, yes it's stupid to be completely unindependent without your crush/ boyfriend around) although I think one should just consider them smut which puts the whole matter in perspective. i certaoinly wouldn't liked to be judged on my sexual fantasies

    But Superhero Comics? The message is 90% of the time: Be a good person, help others, fight injustice. Done.
    That's a good message if I ever heard one and I don't know a single Comic Fan who looses touch with reality over his/ her books either. So what is supposed to be so unhealthy about it?

    Sure it's cheesy and meant for children but guess what: So was Star Wars.

    Why would I just think of Star Wars as old memories I am fond of? Should I sit the new Movies out because I grew up with the prequels and the original trilogy? Why? How?

    Now most people don't go so far as to live and breath that stuff anyway and even if they do, even if they live in an apartment stuffed to the brim with Comic Merch, who are others to judge?
    As long as that person hasn't forgotten what actually matters everything is just fine.
    One only needs to be able to seperate privat interests from the important szuff.

    I know that my knowlegde about metal genres won't help me in a relationship, I know that having read Secret War will not benefit me in a job interview, I know that I can't pay my taxes with credits I earned in a videogame.

    Elitism. Now that is an actual problem he could have addressed. Why be mad at people who enjoy certain stuff (Comics, Music, Movies, etc.) on a more casual level? No one is taking anything away from you.
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  3. #18
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I think Moore takes these funny books too seriously.
    Don't we all?

  4. #19
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    This just in: Cranky old man is cranky.
    More news at 11.
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  5. #20

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    he's never written anything that entertained me. I think he writes for a specific audience. and i'm not part of that audience. so it's no surprise that we have a difference in opinion on this subject. i'll leave it there...well, no I won't. his comments remind me of Bill Cosby's tendency to shame black people before karma came back around.

  6. #21
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    Once again, Alan Moore pisses all over what made him famous. If it wasn't for comics, no one would give a crap about him or what he thinks.

  7. #22
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    He makes some good points about certain comics struggling to find their identity, but overall he's a little too cynical. Exactly what we expect from Moore

  8. #23
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    Is this just the rantings of a bitter old man?
    No. It is the whining of a bitter old man-child.

    Seriously, Moore gets more petulant every year. For decades, he has whined and complained about writers who are doing the very things that Moore made his name with. He claims to want nothing to do with the industry, but always finds time and excuse to bitch and cry about it.


    They aren't really for kids, as they were in the Silver Age, but as a whole they never achieved a level of maturity and sophistication which would make them really fitting for adults. Except for things like Sandman, or some series from the 1980s.
    That is an under-sell of the industry. (And, the more we agree that comics are moron-fodder, the harder it is to justify our hobby. Just sayin'...)


    From a related thread:

    http://community.comicbookresources....hy-Escapism%92



    Moore has said this before, and it's a fair point, but it's probably kind of irrelevant. It may be true that we should outgrow superheroes as we grow older, but obviously it doesn't happen.
    That is not quite true.

    We should generally outgrow the stuff we read 25+ years ago. But, the comics of today are written to a different standard than the comics of 25 years ago, which were written to a different standard than the comics of the 60s and 70s.



    I think it's probably a little extra frustrating for him because despite all the work he's done and the many different styles he's tried, most of the most famous things he's done are the work-for-hire projects he did for DC. Artists don't like being constantly asked about the work they did when they were young, and especially work that they're not proud of (he's proud of
    Does anyone really think that Moore could not sell a creator-owned project? Maybe Moore does not have any ideas to sell?



    Hilarious. Just about every form of literature at one point or another was viewed as "unhealthy escapism."
    Moore is the one who is now pushing for less sophisticated comics, and he is whining about unhealthy escapism? (Never mind how out of touch with reality that Moore often seems. "Escapism" for who exactly?)

    I can see looking askance at an adult is who is reading childish content at a child's level (which is not unusual in comics). Similarly, I get tired of fans whining about how they want what they had 25+ years ago.

    But, Moore needs to get over himself. He has been off his game for 25 years and cannot get work because he is a raging jackass. He makes a point of no longer identifying as a writer, but he tries to call shots for actual writers.


    (no it's not romantic to break into someones home .....
    Boy is my face red.


    Done.
    That's a good message if I ever heard one and I don't know a single Comic Fan who looses touch with reality over his/ her books either.
    It happens (as stated above) with most any hobby. But, there is a difference between that and having a hobby.


    he's never written anything that entertained me. I think he writes for a specific audience.
    I loved "Watchmen" 20 years ago. And, if you push me, I can still respect it for being technically sophisticated for the time it came out. (Moore actually gave thought to things like lettering and breakdowns. He wrote articulate sentences. That was not a given in the mid-80s.)

    I liked his "Swamp Thing". If not for Moore, plenty of stuff I liked (and like now) may not have happened.

    But, he is such a whiny little turd that I cannot stand anything he has written at this point. I cannot even talk about "Watchmen" without getting angry.


    Moore shooting his beardy mouth off would be more acceptable if he had actually produced anything of merit in the last 25 years.
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  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Well, he references the movies first, and I'd agree that comic book movies, specifically the MCU, focuses on escapism.

    It seems that Moore thinks comic books can only be escapism and that carrying them into adulthood isn't proper. Watchmen is critical of the superhero genre, sure; but what stops other superhero stories from having a mature tone? Nothing. Has Moore not read comics since the Bronze Age?

    I will admit that much of modern monthlies, even though I enjoy them, tend to be almost pure escapism as well. And fans do seem divided as to whether they want beginning-and-end epics with social commentary or lighthearted entertainment that focuses on the fun of having super powers. But IMO, at their best, comic books are dramatic stories with human themes that can be found in any great work. Whether it's Shakespeare, Homer, Dickens, Star Wars, a good story depends not on the context but on the characters and message being conveyed.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Dragonick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    I wonder what he considers unhealthy escapism.
    For me personally that would be stuff like the gaming addiction (hold your horses and hear me out, I play videogames myself) that often befalls MMORPG's Players. When their second live slowly but surely replaces any other social interaction outside of their Ingame world.

    I could also see how someone would consider Stuff like the Twilight books unhealthy because it includes problematic messages (no it's not romantic to break into someones home and watch them sleep, yes it's stupid to be completely unindependent without your crush/ boyfriend around) although I think one should just consider them smut which puts the whole matter in perspective. i certaoinly wouldn't liked to be judged on my sexual fantasies

    But Superhero Comics? The message is 90% of the time: Be a good person, help others, fight injustice. Done.
    That's a good message if I ever heard one and I don't know a single Comic Fan who looses touch with reality over his/ her books either. So what is supposed to be so unhealthy about it?

    Sure it's cheesy and meant for children but guess what: So was Star Wars.

    Why would I just think of Star Wars as old memories I am fond of? Should I sit the new Movies out because I grew up with the prequels and the original trilogy? Why? How?

    Now most people don't go so far as to live and breath that stuff anyway and even if they do, even if they live in an apartment stuffed to the brim with Comic Merch, who are others to judge?
    As long as that person hasn't forgotten what actually matters everything is just fine.
    One only needs to be able to seperate privat interests from the important szuff.

    I know that my knowlegde about metal genres won't help me in a relationship, I know that having read Secret War will not benefit me in a job interview, I know that I can't pay my taxes with credits I earned in a videogame.

    Elitism. Now that is an actual problem he could have addressed. Why be mad at people who enjoy certain stuff (Comics, Music, Movies, etc.) on a more casual level? No one is taking anything away from you.
    Seriously, I never see any of this writers/creators talking about elitism and how it effects the industry.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    he's never written anything that entertained me. I think he writes for a specific audience. and i'm not part of that audience. so it's no surprise that we have a difference in opinion on this subject.
    And I thought I was the only one. I have read my fair share of his comics now and most of them didn't really click with me. Sure his Swamp Thing had few good issues but I had to drag myself to read it till the end. His V for Vendetta I could not finish until now because it doesn't entertain me in the least. And that is - Entertainment, I mean - something that Mr. Moore seems to have forgotten. I for myself see comics as a form of entertainment that I could enjoy as a kid, still enjoy now in my twenties and will still enjoy for years to come.

    Sure comics is a form of escapism but so is every other kind of entertainment medium. I don't see why any comic, even superheroes, can be more "unhealthy" than other kind of entertainment sources.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    "Great", another thread (which I know..to be fair was started to have a sensible discussion)....on Alan Moore that is guaranteed to generate a load of derogatory remarks on a guy who has provided massive amounts of entertainment for a great many people.

    And it's always on the DC boards. The Marvel boards never do this, nor do the classic boards. It's almost as though a few DC fans can't cope with fact he decided to stop working for DC.

    The bizarre thing is that these boards have appreciation threads for fictitious characters where it's regarded as a "thought crime" to question the merit of said character, and no negative posting must ever take place. But when areal guy is concerned...then's it's okay to make pointless insulting comments that have nothing to do with the comics, or whatever has been said in latest interview. (See Central Power's posting for an excellent example.)

    Seriously if there isn't a DC boards bias against Alan Moore, why don't we see constantly see similar threads about other renowned creators...some of whose utterances make Alan Moore seem the apex of rationality??

  13. #28
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    So some comic book news source asks Alan Moore for an interview, because they know that an interview with Alan Moore is gold--it will get them a lot of hits. Alan Moore, being Alan Moore, gives his usual answers to such questions. Which is exactly what the news source wants, because this is the kind of thing that will drive people to their site.

    It's not like Alan Moore is travelling around the world, trying to find anyone who will listen, so he can rant on about his opinions. People seek him out expressly for these kinds of comments. If they didn't ask, Moore wouldn't be bothered and news sources would just have to re-post the old interviews, where Moore said essentially the same thing.

    And then people on threads like this do some psycho-analysis of Alan Moore, though they've never met the guy, and say all kinds of wild things about his character. And the unverse is unfolding as it should.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Alan Moore criticizes the comic industry. In other shocking news, grass is green.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  15. #30
    DARKSEID LAUGHS... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    He has a right to his opinion and quite frankly there isn't a good counter to what he said beyond "No see, adults are totes reading Superman!" even as DC has to do reboot after reboot because they keep losing readers in the long run.

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