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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Default All Star Batman #2

    While I usually find fault with the way Snyder ends his stories I've never minded his beginnings as he usually finds an interesting way in creating a great mood to his work and the ideas are usually fresh and interesting...but unfortunately I can't say the same here. We're two issues in and other than some fun and colorful action scenes Snyder hasn't given me much to sink my teeth into. In the last issue we saw that Two Face sweetened the pot so to speak with the threat that he'd reveal everyone's dirty secrets if Batman wasn't stopped which ropes in everyday people other than Batman's usual villains which although it feels contrived(How does Two-Face know everyone's dirty secrets? Does everyone really have a secret worth killing for?) is alright enough but when he drags in Bullock, Gordon and even Alfred as being among those looking to break the bat Snyder stretches it a little too thin. There maybe some reason given down the line why his friends are apparently trying to stop him, maybe it's part of his "plan" in the end and we the readers are the only ones not in on it but in order for that to work the characters have to be written believably, we have to be given reason for why they'd turn on Batman beyond, "But the Two Face will expose my secrets!", there has to be some kind of empathy and there just isn't so what we're left with are action packed fight scenes with a who's who of Batman villains with nothing compelling really tying them together...all at 5 bucks a pop, so color me way underwhelmed.

  2. #2
    All-New Member m4st4's Avatar
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    I decided to (finally) register here just to discuss this particular issue... damn, what a disappointment.

    I recently finished JMS' The Amazing Spider-Man (everything before 'Sins Past' that is, don't want to feel cheated) and, needless to say, JRJR has quickly become one of my favorite artists. I really liked his early days with Roger Stern as well... but here it's just not working for me, his panels are inconsistent and Snyder's story lines are all over the place. In his fantastic Batman run that was never a problem but he seems to be juggling way too many balls this time, there's no breathing room for any of the character snippets really. I feel like he's trying to make his own take on Samurai Jack/Mad Max:Fury Road but the artist and the editing aren't there to put it all in proper place, actually had to go back several times just to figure out what the hell just happened.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Snyder is clearly using all his best ideas on this book.
    Its almost a shame so much of his pre rebirth work was centered on Joker and COA
    Him using all of Gotham's villains like this is a lot more entertaining

  4. #4

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    I thought this issue was brilliant. The first one is all about the set up and now the second issue gives us the kinetic action and the roadtrip that Snyder and Romita promised, and it was so good. It was a fast paced read and fun. I'm not a big Romita fan but I thought his art really bring outs out the energy. In a way, this issue was a very un-Synder one and I really enjoy it. My only complain is the weird flashbacks and flashforwards, thouh it flows ok. Looking forward to Batman vs KGBeast
    Last edited by SpideyZERO; 09-14-2016 at 10:45 AM.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Also hopefully we get gentleman ghost next month since apparently last issue was just a tease

  6. #6
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Great issue. What everyone has said..fun, kinetic, road trippy. Like the Narrow Margin some, old movie, was remade with Hackman. Also 3:10 to Yuma like with the hero trying to escort the villain to a location and meeting constant trouble.

    One thing I take issue with: I don't care how Snyder divides up Two-Face and Harvey in entities, I don't like either knowing Bruce is Batman. Is he gonna do this with every rogue he wants to build up? Just feels like a terrible Snyderism to try to build up certain rogues and perhaps deal with certain fans (that shouldn't be placated) that don't believe secret IDs can be realistic (as if much anything in comics are realistic or should be). This secret ID shredding was criticized a good bit pre-FP too.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 09-19-2016 at 06:28 AM.
    Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft

    Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”

  7. #7
    Always Rakzo
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    I quite liked this one. If there's something I can admire about Snyder's work is his sense of presentation. The whole action sequence has a pretty cinematic feel that makes the fight scenes pretty intense and the way how the villains are presented contributes even more to that style. JRJR's work was also pretty on-point.

    In that regard, I surprisingly consider this a much more successful book than King's Batman right now (and it only took two issues).

  8. #8
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    Not much to say. I still feel pretty unimpressed by the nonlinear flashbacking everywhere, mid-story, mid-beat sometimes. Like, this is already a book with a backup feature that takes place "before the main feature" so adding even one more time-skip to the narrative doubles, or triples the confusion. And I follow it fine, it's not like it's that confusing, but it adds nothing to the drama or stakes.

    But the actual premise itself is still fine. Harvey's depiction is decent - I'm way cooler with this mild tweak and Harvey entering a sort of extended psychological phase of his, than I was ever cool with Snyder's horror-tinged, and thus stupidly lame, Joker. (Horror is a pretty dumb genre that strips everything of nuance.) The all-star line-up of villain after villain is just fun, and I like the continued reinvention of Penguin, Mask and Great White being Gotham's three crime king triumvirate, and I even really like the Black and Whites title for them because it fits, and it also hearkens really nicely to black and white film noir genre stuff, gentleman crime, and all that. We get a Southern gator-wrassler Croc, more TAS than anything else, which is good, because there's nothing I hate more than "monster Croc", and Seeley's repair work on Waylon has been so good that it's important to have Snyder adhere to it. Another King Shark? Eh, whatever. One-off. Fun. KGBeast is fun. He's had surprisingly good play in the New 52.
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  9. #9
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    This feels a lot like Jeph Loeb's Superman/Batman with Ed McGuinness. It has an "A Star" writer and artist, it features Batman and his greatest villains and they all duke it out in this insanely large plot arc that could change everything and eveyrone.

    The dialogue is bad to mediocore, the villains get one-shotted but gosh darn is the art just something to stare and embrace. Definitely have Mad Max: Fury Road soundtrack on the background for this issue. King Shark, Origins Copperhead, Black Mask with an Iron Mask, KGBeast, KGBeast having murdered a Talon. Really just fun stuff on the art.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member FlictsLantern's Avatar
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    The bad: despite a funny reference, a bit of too much "Deus ex Utility Belt"

    The good: everything else. I like arcs that add elements and problems in the second, even 3rd issue. This can even give some personality to Duke. Hope to see some of the second and 3rd tie villains reappear down the road. Literally down the road. And the design of Zsasz is the scariest ever.

  11. #11
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    In that regard, I surprisingly consider this a much more successful book than King's Batman right now (and it only took two issues).
    I expected this myself. Snyder's interviews on it suggested something so fresh and different from his run thus far. And he's delivering.

    I'm not gonna bash King, he's having to do the more familiar but needed back-to-basics brick-and-mortars in Gotham (can't do another Batman replacement!) like Snyder started with and who knows how it might end up in the long run, maybe cumulatively, it will compete with Snyder here. And maybe King at some point will be tasked with or allowed to go "out there" more with Batman, experiment.


    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    There maybe some reason given down the line why his friends are apparently trying to stop him, maybe it's part of his "plan" in the end and we the readers are the only ones not in on it but in order for that to work the characters have to be written believably, we have to be given reason for why they'd turn on Batman beyond, "But the Two Face will expose my secrets!", there has to be some kind of empathy and there just isn't
    There isn't? Isn't just that a "right now" assertion? That's just it: Because we don't really know what is going on, we don't know there isn't a perfectly good explanation (and the following empathy) for what these Bat allies are doing. I myself suspect a bait and switch, Snyder has done them before to fun effect.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 09-14-2016 at 12:53 PM.
    Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft

    Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”

  12. #12
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    I thought this issue was better than the first one. Not that I didn't like the first one, but this issue seemed to flow better. I like how Snyder is using so many villains and Batman is basically running a gauntlet. The variants were awesome too.

    I just wish Duke wasn't a part of this series. He just doesn't fit in this book, IMO.
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  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    was that spoilers:
    nite owl's chopped up corpse
    end of spoilers inside spoilers:
    kgbeast's
    end of spoilers closet??

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    I expected this myself. Snyder's interviews on it suggested something so fresh and different from his run thus far. And he's delivering.

    I'm not gonna bash King, he's having to do the more familiar but needed back-to-basics brick-and-mortars in Gotham (can't do another Batman replacement!) like Snyder started with and who knows how it might end up in the long run, maybe cumulatively, it will compete with Snyder here. And maybe King at some point will be tasked with or allowed to go "out there" more with Batman, experiment.



    There isn't? Isn't just that a "right now" assertion? That's just it: Because we don't really know what is going on, we don't know there isn't a perfectly good explanation (and the following empathy) for what these Bat allies are doing. I myself suspect a bait and switch, Snyder has done them before to fun effect.
    That bait and switch has to be earned to work though, you have to be given a credible reason to buy into these characters acting against their normal characteristics for that about face to feel believable otherwise it just comes off as contrived for the latter reveal which is poor writing. Without allowing the audience to experience that motivation or even just hinting at it all you have for reasoning why Gordon and Alfred and Bullock are turning on Bruce is because it's a function of moving the plot which is pretty hollow, so there's no real emotional response gained by the bait of their turns and because of that there won't be a feeling of catharsis when the switch is "revealed" later on.

    If this was just big, fun, cartoon action pieces like the scene on the train it might be more enjoyable, but the subplot with Bruce's friends trying to stop him really drags it down.

  15. #15
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    That bait and switch has to be earned to work though, you have to be given a credible reason to buy into these characters acting against their normal characteristics for that about face to feel believable otherwise it just comes off as contrived for the latter reveal which is poor writing. Without allowing the audience to experience that motivation or even just hinting at it all you have for reasoning why Gordon and Alfred and Bullock are turning on Bruce is because it's a function of moving the plot which is pretty hollow, so there's no real emotional response gained by the bait of their turns and because of that there won't be a feeling of catharsis when the switch is "revealed" later on.
    Feels like you're saying you want the bait to not be bait. It's not a shock value bait ("they turned on Batman..wwwhat!?") if the bait is already killed early on via this "credible reason to buy into these characters acting against their normal characteristics." It's just two issues in, he might hint at it more, or maybe he already is subtly. And I'm not sure he has to hint at it. I think the fact that we know these are always good guys is perhaps hint enough that some other motivation must be driving them from what it appears, from what the snippets of dialogue suggest, but perhaps misleadingly.

    I don't know, I've noticed Snyder likes him some shock value (comics in general love shock value). I'm fine with it, think it's fun, even if I'm not fooled too much like more casual readers.


    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    was that spoilers:
    nite owl's chopped up corpse
    end of spoilers inside spoilers:
    kgbeast's
    end of spoilers closet??
    Yes, perplexed me a tad too, but I might be overthinking what it might mean. Maybe he did that (on behalf of whoever) and that's it. Anyway, definitely a slide in to tease what he's mentioned after this first 12 or 13: Wave 2 of the spoilers:
    Court of Owls
    end of spoilerswith a hopefully returning Greg.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 09-14-2016 at 01:42 PM.
    Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft

    Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”

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