All-New Wolverine #12 Preview

[Desean101101]

"Her Logan" would also have lost control (or any character), if dozens of darts with drug hit him. Old Man Logan is not more dangerous than original Wolverine. Laura is not stupid and should understand it.

Um logan was really stability before he got sealed in metal. He and storm were going steady. He and laura were patching their relationship up and he set her up with an Apartment closer to him so they could meet more. It went all tits up when he got metaled up by the damn Weapon X people. But her logan is so much stable for everyone than Old Man Logan is.

[Ambaryerno]

Um logan was really stability before he got sealed in metal. He and storm were going steady. He and laura were patching their relationship up and he set her up with an Apartment closer to him so they could meet more. It went all tits up when he got metaled up by the damn Weapon X people. But her logan is so much stable for everyone than Old Man Logan is.

I don't think Logan set the apartment up for Laura. She mentions inheriting it after his death, but there's no mention of the place prior to ANW #2. There's also some debate how patched vs. strained their relationship was before he died, but a lot of that is failures on the part of editorial allowing Bendis to snatch her up. It made NO SENSE AT ALL for her to end up in ANXM when the last we saw of her in Arena she was being loaded onto a medevac flight by Logan. It would have been FAR more appropriate to move her to either Amazing, Adjectiveless, or WatXM, so we could have seen her interacting with Logan (and her friends IE Cessily and Jubilee) as she recovered from the experience.

But otherwise, yeah, this is pretty accurate. 616!Logan was in a much more stable place at the time he died than OML is now. Not at all helped by the fact that one of the last things Logan tried to tell Laura before the shit hit the fan was that the Gabby of his world did something bad, and he clearly mistook her for "his" Gabby when he lashed out, and that's what Laura saw. I'm NOT saying Laura wasn't unfair or overreacting — and there's certainly no indication that Taylor was trying to say that she was even RIGHT — but taken IN CONTEXT her response is believable and realistic.

The "poor misunderstood Old Man Logan" stuff requires one HELL of a selective memory, considering the VERY FIRST THING he did in the Lemire series (other than finding pants) was track down and murder a guy who bullied his son in his timeline. Someone who DIDN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING in the current MU.

[Jumbo]

But otherwise, yeah, this is pretty accurate. 616!Logan was in a much more stable place at the time he died than OML is now. Not at all helped by the fact that one of the last things Logan tried to tell Laura before the shit hit the fan was that the Gabby of his world did something bad, and he clearly mistook her for "his" Gabby when he lashed out, and that's what Laura saw. I'm NOT saying Laura wasn't unfair or overreacting — and there's certainly no indication that Taylor was trying to say that she was even RIGHT — but taken IN CONTEXT her response is believable and realistic.

Believable and realistic? Laura herself recognizes that the logan is not guilty, that is to blame Cap. But then she throws in Logan most cruel words that she could tell him. Why is she doing this, if she is satisfied that the Logan is not guilty? The original Logan was more stable, but it also could attack his friends, if he is brainwashed by Hydra or obsessed with the devil (remember Hellverine). But no one blamed, everyone knew that it was not his fault.

If Laura will trigger obsessed and will do bad things, all her friends have to yell to her that she is guilty, is unstable and should go away from them? Of course Taylor would not write it.

[MarvelMaster616]

Really enjoyed this issue. This series has set a high bar since it began and this one definitely maintained the level of quality that Tom Taylor established. The greatest strength of the past few issues has been the emotional upheaval. That last page in the previous issue where Old Man Logan stabbed Gabby was a real heart-breaker. It definitely evoked all the right feels. This issue didn't evoke quite as many, but it definitely had some extra drama to go along with the berserker fighting.

More than anything else, this issue establishes that X-23 does not see Old Man Logan as the same Logan that she loved and considered family. If anything, Old Man Logan is now a perversion of that Logan. That gives her a lot of incentive not to aid him or accept his help, which is kind of important since Old Man Logan has spent a good chunk of his time trying to avoid the future he lived. It made for a solid struggle, but one that didn't get fleshed out enough in my opinion. I would've liked to know more about what happened with Gabby and X-23 in his world. We only got vague hints and I hope we learn more in future issues.

Overall, this was a great issue. All-New Wolverine continues to be one of the best comics to spin out of Secret Wars. Looking forward to Enemy of the State now. I also did a review of this comic on my blog. If it's okay with the mods, here's a link:

My Review for All-New Wolverine #12

[MikaelNovasun]

Believable and realistic? Laura herself recognizes that the logan is not guilty, that is to blame Cap. But then she throws in Logan most cruel words that she could tell him. Why is she doing this, if she is satisfied that the Logan is not guilty? The original Logan was more stable, but it also could attack his friends, if he is brainwashed by Hydra or obsessed with the devil (remember Hellverine). But no one blamed, everyone knew that it was not his fault.

If Laura will trigger obsessed and will do bad things, all her friends have to yell to her that she is guilty, is unstable and should go away from them? Of course Taylor would not write it.

To your first point you realize humans and by extension mutants/superhumans are complex and emotional creatures? We can understand and feel many things at once. She can understand what OML is going through but still act to protect herself and her loved ones, or be motivated by vengence in a moment of grief. As much as OML has in common with 616 Logan they are still two distinct individuals, and only one of them has been a father that Laura has loved, lost, and mourned. OML is a reminder of what she has lost, and reopens the wounds and heartbreak of losing her father. Sometimes we have to cut people out of our lives to protect our emotional and mental health. Then there is the threat to Gabby, and we saw how that turned out once already.

But why are you holding Laura the only one accountable? Where is OML's accountability? He isn't a child, he is a fully mature adult with centuries of experience. Does he not understand that being around him may hurt Laura, and she may feel she is betraying 616 Logan spending time with him? Why is Gabby responsible for what an alternate version of her did? Has he learned nothing from his own time in the 616 verse? You seem to be coming from a place where OML is the only one we should consider. Where is his understanding for Laura's situation?

You sure about that last point? Cause guess what the story line coming up is: Enemy of the State II. And it has been revealed Laura loses control and will be on the run.

Your fanatical defense of OML ignores everything but OML himself. Look beyond your sacred cow, and see the story for what it is: heartbreak and loss for both Laura, and Logan.

[Jumbo]

Your fanatical defense of OML ignores everything but OML himself. Look beyond your sacred cow, and see the story for what it is: heartbreak and loss for both Laura, and Logan.

I just spread the facts. Logan is not an angel, but he did not monster. Laura is hypocritical when it accuses old man Logan, but realizes that this is not his fault. What he was accountability? He tried to get away from the Cap and could not. He was caught, drugged, he was not responsible for his actions. If he really wanted to kill Gabrielle, he would have killed her in the apartment. So what is his accountability?

I do not see the loss to Laura. Old Logan really did not have a chance to be a father to her. He did not seek a meeting with her and she did not want to see him. Their meeting was a coincidence, they have little dialogue and that is all.

I know about the plot Enemy of the State, but I'm sure that no one would tell her "you're a rabid dog, go away."

And please turn down your emotions.

[Nazrel]

I know about the plot Enemy of the State, but I'm sure that no one would tell her "you're a rabid dog, go away."

Well her problem is trigger sent, not berserker rages, and she's her own greatest critic, so knowing her, the sentiment will probability be more along the lines of "I'm a trained attack dog that needs to be put down."

And please turn down your emotions.

Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black. Do you have any capacity for self awareness?

[Ambaryerno]

I just spread the facts. Logan is not an angel, but he did not monster. Laura is hypocritical when it accuses old man Logan, but realizes that this is not his fault. What he was accountability? He tried to get away from the Cap and could not. He was caught, drugged, he was not responsible for his actions. If he really wanted to kill Gabrielle, he would have killed her in the apartment. So what is his accountability?


I know about the plot Enemy of the State, but I'm sure that no one would tell her "you're a rabid dog, go away."

XvLogan.jpg

Here we have Logan, AFTER regaining control, and he's STILL blaming Gabby for things her AU version did. He's STILL refusing to accept that Gabby's future isn't set in stone, and she's not destined to be what "his" Gabby was. Logan is NO LESS culpable for this breakdown, yet you're either unable to recognize or willfully disregarding the unreasonableness of HIS actions. You're ignoring the fact that no matter whether or not he was in control, it was his PREJUDICE against Gabby that led to him acting the way he did. It's entirely possible to not be at fault, but still be accountable.

Also, NO WHERE IN THE BOOK does Taylor establish that Laura was 100% correct. No one comes up to Laura and says, "Hey, you know that thing you said? Totally right" (the closest we get is Gabby throwing Logan's "If you hurt her" back in his face, but we've already seen she has a bit of hero/big sister worship going and that can't be taken at face value). Hell, in her rant to Rogers afterwards she outright says EVERYONE is going to be both right and wrong.

[Jumbo]

Here we have Logan, AFTER regaining control, and he's STILL blaming Gabby for things her AU version did.

I repeat to you specifically, you probably do not read my posts carefully. If Logan really wanted to kill her, he would kill her immediately (As in his book he attacked Hulk or the other guy who insulted his son). However, he hit her only when it was drugged. We do not know what he was thinking at that moment, because Taylor did not care about his feelings and thoughts. But in his mind were memories of his universe, where Gabby was the enemy.
And we do not know anything about those events. Writer needed only a good dramatic moment in which Laura yells at Logan and then says loud speech. These are the things that will please readers like you.

[MikaelNovasun]

I just spread the facts. Logan is not an angel, but he did not monster. Laura is hypocritical when it accuses old man Logan, but realizes that this is not his fault. What he was responsible? He tried to get away from the Cap and could not. He was caught, drugged, he was not responsible for his actions. If he really wanted to kill Gabrielle, he would have killed her in the apartment. What he is guilty?


I know about the plot Enemy of the State, but I'm sure that no one would tell her "you're a rabid dog, go away."

You share your opinion, and use only the facts that support your argument ignoring the rest. I get that Laura is being hypocritical while emotionally comprised, I get that Logan looks bad while not being in control. But all their actions make sense and are in character. No one wins in this story, it is full of heartbreak but it does make a good story. And a matter of Logan being guilty isn't why Laura shuts him out of her life.

In regards to your Enemy of the State comment. Once someone counters your point, you change your argument or add a clause to it. You have done it numerous times in the past and it weakens your argument, and at times counters your own argument.

Turn down my emotions? I am using logical arguments within the context of the story being told as well as the past history of the characters involved. I referred to OML as a sacred cow because that is how you seem to regard him. Something considered immune from question or criticism, especially unreasonably so.

[Jumbo]

I am using logical arguments within the context of the story

I'm doing the same thing. The only difference is that I really pay more attention to Logan. But this is to be expected. If author put another important character in their comics and specifically shows him with the worst hand, there will always be criticism from fans of this character.

[MikaelNovasun]

I'm doing the same thing. The only difference is that I really pay more attention to Logan. But this is to be expected. If author put another important character in their comics and specifically shows him with the worst hand, there will always be criticism from fans of this character.

Again I refer you to the cow, I hear it is sacred. Look I enjoy a good debate about a comic book and its characters. But I try to eliminate my personal bias when discussing a character. I love Laura as a character and I enjoy seeing her succeed. But I also like seeing her struggle. Conflict and hardship drive character development. Laura has her faults, and is a better more believable character because of them.

Before the last two issues of ANW I wondered why Logan would oppose Storm and Jean who are fighting along side Carol in CW2 #4. Now we see why, it further develops his character in regards to his motivations in CW2 issue 5. So in a sense Taylor bails out Bendis, because I highly doubt Bendis was going to show the reason behind Logan opposing Carol, Storm, and Jean.

[Knives]

Good issue and happy for Gabby still be alive.

I felt sorry for Logan if not for Rogers and Hill probably none of this would have happened.

[Beaubier]

Blah blah OML can do no wrong blah blah Laura is the bad guy. Fact: Even though Logan lost control due to a lot of external factors, when he came to and was in his right mind again, he thought his actions were justified. Gabby, who is still a child and not the person he knew, still gets the blame from Logan. Gabby is bad, so Laura should understand because he's trying to protect her. Laura thinks he's full of it because his future is not necessarily their future. But one thing is clear: to protect Gabby, she needs to keep her away from OML who she now realizes is not her Logan. So yeah, OML is culpable for his own attitude. If he had remorse once he woke up Laura would have seen things differently.

Laura certainly had some harsh words for him (especially calling him an animal.. Ouch. Reminded me of Zander Rice in her childhood) but she was coming from a place of anger and grief. Let's not forget that she did defend him to Cap - telling him that his actions caused OML to be in his situation in the first place and telling Cap to leave him alone.

[Jumbo]

Blah blah OML can do no wrong blah blah Laura is the bad guy. Fact: Even though Logan lost control due to a lot of external factors, when he came to and was in his right mind again, he thought his actions were justified. Gabby, who is still a child and not the person he knew, still gets the blame from Logan. Gabby is bad, so Laura should understand because he's trying to protect her. Laura thinks he's full of it because his future is not necessarily their future. But one thing is clear: to protect Gabby, she needs to keep her away from OML who she now realizes is not her Logan. So yeah, OML is culpable for his own attitude. If he had remorse once he woke up Laura would have seen things differently.

Laura certainly had some harsh words for him (especially calling him an animal.. Ouch. Reminded me of Zander Rice in her childhood) but she was coming from a place of anger and grief.

"blah blah blah old Logan is evil. blah blah blah Laura completely right."
If you justify Laura, why you do not have an justify for Logan? Old Man Logan wanted to tell his story, and then maybe it would be to repent. But Laura did not want to listen to him.

Let's not forget that she did defend him to Cap - telling him that his actions caused OML to be in his situation in the first place and telling Cap to leave him alone.

It is ridiculous. Fact: Cap is one who is fully to blame for everything. Laura admits it. But Laura didn't throw nasty words in his face.