August direct Market sales: Marvel has only one series in the top 10

[Prof. Warren]

Thats not a given, since you're not actually looking at whats been happening.

Marvels book dropped like hell, which is how they got here in the first place. DCs books have yet to have the same kind of drops. And we're not accounting the mass difference in books being published by both sides.

This whole thing depends on if Marvels books keep readers, and they've gotten worse at that with every relaunch. The 1s will be fine but then then they don't have as much this time around.

One, we don't know what the full slate of NOW! titles will be. Marvel's new "seasons" usually roll out over the course of four to five months.

Two, DC Rebirth is only in its third month. August was still a big month of debuts so it's going to be awhile before we know about drop offs. Especially as stores make their orders three months in advance so August's Diamond numbers reflect orders made before Rebirth even arrived in stores.

Three, the fact that Rebirth is DC's second line-wide reboot in five years says a lot about their long term ability to hold readers. If they could hold on to readers not only would we have not had the New52 to begin with but we wouldn't have Rebirth now.

Good for DC for getting back into the game but this all smacks of deja vu.

[El_Gato]

One, we don't know what the full slate of NOW! titles will be. Marvel's new "seasons" usually roll out over the course of four to five months.

Two, DC Rebirth is only in its third month. August was still a big month of debuts so it's going to be awhile before we know about drop offs. Especially as stores make their orders three months in advance so August's Diamond numbers reflect orders made before Rebirth even arrived in stores.

Three, the fact that Rebirth is DC's second line-wide reboot in five years says a lot about their long term ability to hold readers. If they could hold on to readers not only would we have not had the New52 to begin with but we wouldn't have Rebirth now.

Good for DC for getting back into the game but this all smacks of deja vu.

We do not speak about the New 52! That relaunch was a travesty that ruined a lot of their characters. Basically taking what fans loved about certain characters and throwing it out the window, so it's no wonder that relaunch failed and wasn't able to hold readers. Looking at the numbers the Rebirth titles are holding up very well. It also helps that certain characters are back to normal and Rebirth seems to be doing phases (Lot's of speculation about phase 2 books).

[Alpha to Omega]

Three, the fact that Rebirth is DC's second line-wide reboot in five years says a lot about their long term ability to hold readers. If they could hold on to readers not only would we have not had the New52 to begin with but we wouldn't have Rebirth now.

Good for DC for getting back into the game but this all smacks of deja vu.

Unlike Marvel who have gone through two line-wide relaunches in Marvel NOW and ANAD Marvel in less than four years. What does that say about Marvel's ability to hold readers?

[skyvolt2000]

Unlike Marvel who have gone through two line-wide relaunches in Marvel NOW and ANAD Marvel in less than four years. What does that say about Marvel's ability to hold readers?

Marvel did not ruin tons of characters whose origins were not broke to begin with.

Marvel did not run off writers before some books came out (Static Shock).

Marvel did not erase fan favorite characters like DC did with Cassandra Cain.

Marvel has not tried to bury a chracter because the folks in charge don't care for him (John Stewart).

Marvel did not turn a character with 300 issue run and turn him into a racist stereotype like Wally West.

Marvel did not DESTROY a franchise like Dc did with Teen Titans. For all the crying about X-Men-at least they are still around.

Marvel did a relaunch to bring Miles Morales into the main universe and for some seasonal mode where a book gets a restart.

And despite all the crying about minorities of Marvel and Inhumans are so powerful enough to make folks ignore all their precious white heroes who are still around-Dc's antics were way more harmful than what Marvel has done.

[Username taken]

Thats not a given, since you're not actually looking at whats been happening.

Marvels book dropped like hell, which is how they got here in the first place. DCs books have yet to have the same kind of drops. And we're not accounting the mass difference in books being published by both sides.

This whole thing depends on if Marvels books keep readers, and they've gotten worse at that with every relaunch. The 1s will be fine but then then they don't have as much this time around.

They'll keep enough readers that by the time DC has finished the Re-birth initiative that they'll take over the market share. Not to mention that DC themselves have they will stop double shipping after a while meaning that the huge sales from the core titles will drop to a more stable level then.

DC has dominated the market more than this before and as I said earlier, they had 50% of the entire market share at one point during the new 52. I don't know if you were around then but there was a lot more "doom and gloom" about Marvel then only for things to completely turn around about a year later.

I might not be excited much by what Marvel is doing but even I can recognize that these things are cyclical and stuff always changes with direct market sales figures.

[Alpha to Omega]

Marvel did not ruin tons of characters whose origins were not broke to begin with.

That's a matter of opinion. Iron Man's origin was messed with for no reason other than to introduce a character that hasn't even appeared or been mentioned in almost two years.

Marvel did not run off writers before some books came out (Static Shock).

Marvel ran off Matt Fraction before his run on Inhumans started.

Marvel did not erase fan favorite characters like DC did with Cassandra Cain.

The entire Ultimate Universe aside from Miles has been erased.

Marvel has not tried to bury a chracter because the folks in charge don't care for him (John Stewart).

Richard Rider.

Marvel did not turn a character with 300 issue run and turn him into a racist stereotype like Wally West.

Instead they took a character with a 60 year history in Cyclops and turned him into someone the senior editor refers to as Hitler.

Marvel did not DESTROY a franchise like Dc did with Teen Titans. For all the crying about X-Men-at least they are still around.

So are the Titans. Now the Fantastic Four, unlike those teams, were cancelled and aren't being published at all.

And despite all the crying about minorities of Marvel and Inhumans are so powerful enough to make folks ignore all their precious white heroes who are still around-Dc's antics were way more harmful than what Marvel has done.

The only person I see crying in this thread is you.

[CrimsonEchidna]

I have to wonder, why is the Marvel forum obsessed with this... when the DC forum has like one post about it? lol.

Because there's been people bitching about the ANAD relaunch for close to a year now, so they view the success of Rebirth for DC as some sort of validation.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

As opposed to the same boring new DC writing? I'm glad DC fans are enjoying Rebirth but it seems like just retreading the same old ground. There's nothing in it that appeals to me, personally. Wally's back but I doubt there's anything they're going to do with the character that I can't get from re-reading my old Waid or Johns issues. And Batman...still doing the same kind of Batman stuff that I have multiple long boxes of. In the latest issue of Detective yet another Robin dies (kind of) and I just feel like I've taken these rides before.

On the other hand, with Marvel they're telling stories that I haven't already read many times over. I don't know where Jane Foster's Thor story is going. I don't know where Sam Wilson as Cap will end up. For that matter, I don't know where Hydra Cap is going or how long Peter Parker will be a globally successful entrepreneur. I don't know where Miles is going in the MU or how the Champions will fare as a team or how Riri or Doom will make their respective marks as Ironheart and the Infamous Iron Man or where Tony will be in all this. It's not the same old, same old. It's treading new ground and that's the only reason for me to keep investing in an ongoing story.

I think a lot of DC fans want to exist in a bubble of nostalgia where nothing really changes and the primary function that comics perform for them is to provide a "safe place". To me, you can get that with back issues. If Marvel was all about keeping to the familiar status quos of their characters, I'd have stopped reading a long time ago.

Incorporating the Watchmen characters into the main DCU has never been done before. That's breaking new ground, there's been so much speculation about what role those characters will play and the possibilities are endless. That's not all. Superman is raising a son, Batman and All Star Batman are anything but generic Batman stories, Harley Quinn is a one of a kind female protagonist and is dominating, saying that Rebirth is a generic retread of old stories isn't accurate IMO. At least DC knows what they're doing unlike crazy Marvel.

I'm gonna have to agree with Atlanta96 here. Tim didn't die. He was abducted by a seemingly omnipotent mystery figure. That's not "retreading." Neither is Superman's status quo, given that he's never had an in-continuity child. So that's a major status quo shift. We also don't know how the Clark Kent doppelgänger stuff will work itself out. Duke Thomas isn't just living up to the same old "new Robin" schtick. If this were just a few years ago, Duke would have thrown on the old pixie pants a while ago. Hal and the GLs now have to fight their way back to being the prominent police force in the universe after being stranded in another universe. And the assumption you make about Wally is a bit unfair, no? I mean, we really have no idea how any of that is gonna resolve itself. And on that note, as Atlanta said, the Watchmen being brought into the DCU and Dr. Manhattan being set up as the "villain" responsible for messing with the time stream is very much new ground. And a development that I am very excited to see come to fruition.

I am very invested in what Marvel is doing too though. Mighty Thor is one of my must reads every single month in part because of the Jane Foster mystery. I am wondering where they'll go with Hydra Cap as well. However, the difference is, while both are treading new ground, Marvel has I think changed a little too much. Batman is doing things we haven't seen before, but Bruce is still Batman (and speaking of different things, we're actually just coming off a period where he wasn't and Gordon was). Rebirth wasn't about extinguishing experimentation, but about restoring some of the things that made DC DC. Marvel however seems hellbent on erasing certain iconic franchises off the map: Fantastic Four, X-Men, etc. They're not even putting out an FF book at the moment. And their recent actions suggest that they want to just flat out replace the X-Men with the Inhumans and make the latter into the new mutants. No pun intended.

Although I agree that DC needs to keep up the mystery and the interest if they're going to be able to keep the #1 spot from Marvel's relaunch.

[Prof. Warren]

Unlike Marvel who have gone through two line-wide relaunches in Marvel NOW and ANAD Marvel in less than four years. What does that say about Marvel's ability to hold readers?

It says that it takes a lot for any comic company to keep longtime readers interested and to constantly try to attract new readers. But Marvel's seasonal model differs from both New52 and Rebirth in that Marvel has never done a wholesale reboot of their universe.

[Alpha to Omega]

It says that it takes a lot for any comic company to keep longtime readers interested and to constantly try to attract new readers. But Marvel's seasonal model differs from both New52 and Rebirth in that Marvel has never done a wholesale reboot of their universe.

Rebirth wasn't a reboot let alone a wholesale one.

[JKtheMac]

The most interesting part of these Diamond figures is not the market share, which is not that big a deal considering the small percentile shifts. (Far from the most outrageous click bait headlines that have been put out). But we finally have an exact number of how many non-promotional books were shipped. Interestingly that figure does not appear to include the usual 10% estimated reduction for returnable titles (DC Rebirth titles are returnable to encourage the shops to order with reduced risk). So not only do we know for the first time for ages exactly how many units are shipping through Diamond, we will see more accurate estimates for the comics below the top 300. I will be very intrigued to see how these figures shake out in the comichron report next week.

Note that the returnable nature of Rebirth does not necessarily mean they have lower sales in reality (they may be higher than the -10% figure reflected in the charts) but it will take a couple of months to see exactly how that worked out.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

It says that it takes a lot for any comic company to keep longtime readers interested and to constantly try to attract new readers. But Marvel's seasonal model differs from both New52 and Rebirth in that Marvel has never done a wholesale reboot of their universe.

Heroes Reborn.

And Rebirth is in effect DC undoing the New 52 reboot. Like how Heroes Return undid Heroes Reborn for Marvel.

[Prof. Warren]

Rebirth wasn't a reboot let alone a wholesale one.

Well, technically even Crisis on Infinite Earths wasn't a "wholesale" reboot. But it's as close as you get in comics. And as Rebirth seems to set the DCU up for a new continuity, one where the histories of the New52 and post-Crisis universes now co-exist, I think it qualifies.

Heroes Reborn.

And Rebirth is in effect DC undoing the New 52 reboot. Like how Heroes Return undid Heroes Reborn for Marvel.

Heroes Reborn took place in a pocket universe. The regular Marvel U was unaffected. There was nothing to really "undo" at the end of Heroes Reborn except return the characters involved to the Marvel U. Continuity was unchanged.

[JKtheMac]

Heroes Reborn.

And Rebirth is in effect DC undoing the New 52 reboot. Like how Heroes Return undid Heroes Reborn for Marvel.

You think so? They seem to be spending a lot of time validating the New 52 if they want to reverse it. Seems to me they want the cake and to eat it, placate the old fans and keep the new. Seems a very tricky line to walk, I can only hope they manage to keep on the right line because comics need a strong DC.

[Ptrvc]

Marvel did not ruin tons of characters whose origins were not broke to begin with.

Marvel did not run off writers before some books came out (Static Shock).

Marvel did not erase fan favorite characters like DC did with Cassandra Cain.

Marvel has not tried to bury a chracter because the folks in charge don't care for him (John Stewart).

Marvel did not turn a character with 300 issue run and turn him into a racist stereotype like Wally West.

Marvel did not DESTROY a franchise like Dc did with Teen Titans. For all the crying about X-Men-at least they are still around.

Marvel did a relaunch to bring Miles Morales into the main universe and for some seasonal mode where a book gets a restart.

And despite all the crying about minorities of Marvel and Inhumans are so powerful enough to make folks ignore all their precious white heroes who are still around-Dc's antics were way more harmful than what Marvel has done.

Marvel killed off my favorite comic character in a really shameful manner, and now I don't want to read their books.

I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way.