Collecting pre-Crisis Batman

[cgh]

I have every issue of Batman from 332-359 in singles, which is when I started collecting as a little kid, and then things get a bit spotty from there to #400, which is the end of the pre-Crisis Batman. I'd like to fill in the collection with the missing issues and also go back a bit further into the '70s. I have various collections, like the Neal Adams volumes with the reprehensible colouring, but of course in those there are issues missing as well. The same goes for Detective Comics (that is, I'd like to complete my collection of '70s to mid-'80s issues).

In other words, the goal is to have every issue, in one form or another, of Batman and Detective from '71 to '85. I'm not interested in anything Post-Crisis.

What's the best way to do this? The Batman Chronicles was supposed to reprint everything but it stalled out back in 2013. It's starting to look like the best way is to patch together most of the issues with the various reprint volumes out there, including the writer/artist ones, and then maybe buy what missing issues I can digitally, if they are available. But then I don't get that whole shelf satisfaction thing, which will be particularly acute once I get the single issues bound.

Any suggestions on exactly which collections I should get that leave a minimum number of holes I'd need to fill? Or should I wait for the Batman Chronicles to catch up? That could take years/decades at the current glacial pace.

[Dr Quinch]

I think the general consensus is that DC have now abandoned the Chronicles in favour of the new 300-400 page Golden/Silver age trades they seem to be coming out with now. I imagine the Bronze age will follow in due course.

You might get more informed responses over at the Collected Editions board.

[Jim Kelly]

My heart goes out to you.

If you're satisfied with reprints (and not all reprints are created equal) then Mike's Amazing World has a useful Reprint Guide, if you haven't found it already. You'll have to click the individual links there for BATMAN (1940 - 2011) and DETECTIVE COMICS (1937 - 2011) and scroll through the issue by issue listings for stories and where they were reprinted. Mike's lists most of 'em and is pretty up to date.

[codystarbuck]

I have every issue of Batman from 332-359 in singles, which is when I started collecting as a little kid, and then things get a bit spotty from there to #400, which is the end of the pre-Crisis Batman. I'd like to fill in the collection with the missing issues and also go back a bit further into the '70s. I have various collections, like the Neal Adams volumes with the reprehensible colouring, but of course in those there are issues missing as well. The same goes for Detective Comics (that is, I'd like to complete my collection of '70s to mid-'80s issues).

In other words, the goal is to have every issue, in one form or another, of Batman and Detective from '71 to '85. I'm not interested in anything Post-Crisis.

What's the best way to do this? The Batman Chronicles was supposed to reprint everything but it stalled out back in 2013. It's starting to look like the best way is to patch together most of the issues with the various reprint volumes out there, including the writer/artist ones, and then maybe buy what missing issues I can digitally, if they are available. But then I don't get that whole shelf satisfaction thing, which will be particularly acute once I get the single issues bound.

Any suggestions on exactly which collections I should get that leave a minimum number of holes I'd need to fill? Or should I wait for the Batman Chronicles to catch up? That could take years/decades at the current glacial pace.

The Showcase Presents Batman series was up to the early 70s, with the Neal Adams Ra's al Ghul stories and some of Frank Robbins. There are the Batman collections for people like Len Wein, Archie Goodwin, Allan Brennert, Jim Aparo, and Don Newton. Unfortunately, DC let some of their previous colelctions, like Strange Apparitions (with the Engelhart/Rogers run) go out of print and they are pretty pricey, used. They reprinted it (the Marshall Rogers stuff, following the Simonson debut issue); but it is also pricier.

I'm with you on that, though. For my money, there were far more great stories than post-Crisis (as good as many of those were). Don Newton's work in Detective was amazing, Aparo's Brave & the Bold work, Archie Goodwin's turn as editor on detective (with young turks like Chaykin and Simonson getting to strut their stuff), a bunch of great stories with Irv Novick, a few stories with Mike Grell, some excellent writing from Len Wein and Allan Brennert, the "Where Were You on the Night Batman Was Killed?" stories, etc...

[cgh]

My heart goes out to you.

If you're satisfied with reprints (and not all reprints are created equal) then Mike's Amazing World has a useful Reprint Guide, if you haven't found it already. You'll have to click the individual links there for BATMAN (1940 - 2011) and DETECTIVE COMICS (1937 - 2011) and scroll through the issue by issue listings for stories and where they were reprinted. Mike's lists most of 'em and is pretty up to date.

Thanks, I do know about that site. There are still a lot of single issues missing and a lot of those trades are pretty tough to get these days. But yeah, making a big list and getting what I can is probably my best bet. Damn, I wish I'd jumped on this a lot sooner.

[cgh]

I think the general consensus is that DC have now abandoned the Chronicles in favour of the new 300-400 page Golden/Silver age trades they seem to be coming out with now. I imagine the Bronze age will follow in due course.

You might get more informed responses over at the Collected Editions board.

Are those the big black and white reprints? That might not be so bad actually. I'd rather see eg the Neal Adams stuff in black and white than what's in the horrendous recoloured volumes.

Good suggestion about posting in the other forum. I'll give it a go, thanks.

[cgh]

The Showcase Presents Batman series was up to the early 70s, with the Neal Adams Ra's al Ghul stories and some of Frank Robbins. There are the Batman collections for people like Len Wein, Archie Goodwin, Allan Brennert, Jim Aparo, and Don Newton. Unfortunately, DC let some of their previous colelctions, like Strange Apparitions (with the Engelhart/Rogers run) go out of print and they are pretty pricey, used. They reprinted it (the Marshall Rogers stuff, following the Simonson debut issue); but it is also pricier.

I'm with you on that, though. For my money, there were far more great stories than post-Crisis (as good as many of those were). Don Newton's work in Detective was amazing, Aparo's Brave & the Bold work, Archie Goodwin's turn as editor on detective (with young turks like Chaykin and Simonson getting to strut their stuff), a bunch of great stories with Irv Novick, a few stories with Mike Grell, some excellent writing from Len Wein and Allan Brennert, the "Where Were You on the Night Batman Was Killed?" stories, etc...

A really underrated run is Gerry Conway's. He created various villains (like Killer Croc) and had a bunch of long-running subplots. Unfortunately the main title had the often-regrettable Novick/Mclaughlin art.

[Mark Trail]

Unfortunately the main title had the often-regrettable Novick/Mclaughlin art.

Novick is one of the best pencillers Batman ever had. Unfortunately, about the mid-70s DC began saddling him with largely incompatible inkers. In fact, that was a problem for their entire line back then.
Besides McLaughlin, you had some crimes against art as Vince Colletta inking Marshall Rogers on Mr. Miracle and Jack Abel inking Walt Simonson to the point where it was unrecognizable.

[Jim Kelly]

In retrospect, I think my favourite inker on Novick is Joe Giella--other than Novick himself. After Carmine Infantino was kicked upstairs, Novick began doing Batman and his version of the Caped Crusader was based on the Infantino model. As I love that Batman, I find Irv's work very satisfying. Novick only inked his own pencils on the covers for BATMAN and DETECTIVE COMICS, with Joe doing the inks inside BATMAN. Mike Esposito also did some very good ink work over Irv on a few of the covers. Joe's inks might be such a good fit because Giella was used to inking Infantino--and what's more Joe Giella had pencilled and inked Batman in the comic strip feature, in a style that was also Infantinoesque.

Dick Giordano takes over from Joe Giella as the Novick inker on BATMAN. But that comes with a change in the look of Batman--based more or less on what Neal Adams was doing. In fact, Carmine Infantino was so impresed with the Adams' Batman that he declared all the other artists should try to emulate Neal's Batman (rather than Carmine's own version). So we see a change in Irv's Batman and we also see Jim Aparo doing a Batman similar to Neal's. About the only artist at the time who broke from that model was the writer-artist Frank Robbins, who did his own thing (having been an artist since the late '30s, ghosting for Noel Sickles on SCORCHY SMITH).

The change to an Adams style has another effect on Novick's work, as his Batman looks a little too lanky--he's all arms and legs--where his Infantino-syle Batman was more squat. I like what Giordano does with Novick's pencils but not as much as what Giella did. This is odd, since at the time I wasn't a big fan of Giella--preferring guys like Murphy Anderson, Sid Greene and Dick Giordano. This might be a problem with the printing more than the actual inker. The inks looked flat on those old newsprint comics--and inkers with bolder styles maybe made the art jump off the page. Now when the same art is reprinted in offset press books, Giella's inks come out much stronger.

McLaughlin's inks suffer by comparison. But this might also be a problem with the quality of the printing, which got progressively worse as the '70s wore on. I suspect if DC gets around to reprinting the work from the later '70s, I'll find that Frank's inks are actually better when presented in the best light. I really don't think that today's inkers are any better than these classic stylists--yet their inks come out better, because the technology is on their side. I dare guess that even Vince Colletta would look better if he was working now--and especially if his ink work could be fleshed out by a modern colourist.

[Dr Quinch]

Are those the big black and white reprints? That might not be so bad actually. I'd rather see eg the Neal Adams stuff in black and white than what's in the horrendous recoloured volumes.

No, these are in colour: https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Golden...man+golden+age

[Jim Kelly]

The thing with Adams and his crew is that they didn't just change colours--they changed pencils, inks, letters. And DC usually uses those reprints even for B&W volumes like SHOWCASE PRESENTS, which is why so far I haven't bought hardly any of the SPs with Adams art*--well, I did get SP: B&B Vol. 1 but I returned it when I realized that.

*I do have SP: ELONGATED MAN Vol, 1, SP: JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA Vol. 5 and SP: PHANTOM STRANGER Vol. 1--and it looks like the Adams family didn't monkey around with the pages in these volumes. Of course, the Adams content in these is rather low--but JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA No. 94 (one of my favourite comic books of all time) does feature "Where Strikes Demonfang?" which is one of the most important comics for the 1970s as it connects a lot of different story lines in different titles--a neat bit of continuity mashing on the part of Mike Friedrich, Bat-fan extraordinaire.

Some years ago, when DC re-realeased BATMAN: TALES OF THE DEMON, I was going to buy the new edition, because my old original copy was and is getting worn with age (being printed on cheap-o paper). But when I flipped through the new edition, in the store, I realized that the Adams pages are the revamped ones and not using the original art like the first edition of TALES. So I've stuck with just that first printing of the book. If that's the kind of thing that matters to you, I'd recommend seeking out the original editiion and not the later editions.