Cyborg's relationship with Titans possibly being restored in Rebirth

[Waterfall]

Can we please stay on topic? Thanks

[Brave Sir Robin]

He needs to be part of the Teen Titans with his compatriots Robin, Starfire Beast Boy, and Raven. That was the greatest super hero lineup ever. Their fights with Thunder and Lightning were epic.

I am kind of kidding but really did love that show.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

What has to be "handled"- ? They wrote a story where Cyborg is in the Justice League. They have battles with villains and Cyborg participates in those battles. That's super-hero comic books. There's not much else to be "handled".

He has to be written well, given good story arcs and significance to the plot and be more than wall paper and for the most part neither of these have happened.

Agreed with Agent Z. Cyborg when he was with the Titans had actual personality. The Titans weren't just his teammates, but his friends and his family. You don't get that with the League, especially not during the abomination that was the New 52 JL. That's why Vic needs to have his Titans history. Without it, he's just a character so completely out of place in the DCU that you literally can't describe the point of his existence, either in the League or off it.

That would be different if he at least had been set up as just joining the League instead of being a League founder. Like I honestly can't express how much the New 52 screwed up the DC Universe. It would have been infinitely better if it had just been a Marvel NOW! style relaunch.

[James Hunter]

That would be different if he at least had been set up as just joining the League instead of being a League founder. Like I honestly can't express how much the New 52 screwed up the DC Universe. It would have been infinitely better if it had just been a Marvel NOW! style relaunch.

I have to agree, having Vic as a League member and not a founder is fine (he's been with the League since Meltzer's run anyway, or attached and a member since Robinson's). The problem I have is with Vic being a FOUNDER of the League.

This is, in a nutshell, why I want his Titans history resolved.

Cheers.

James.

[AquaLantern]

Agreed with Agent Z. Cyborg when he was with the Titans had actual personality. The Titans weren't just his teammates, but his friends and his family. You don't get that with the League, especially not during the abomination that was the New 52 JL. That's why Vic needs to have his Titans history. Without it, he's just a character so completely out of place in the DCU that you literally can't describe the point of his existence, either in the League or off it.

That would be different if he at least had been set up as just joining the League instead of being a League founder. Like I honestly can't express how much the New 52 screwed up the DC Universe. It would have been infinitely better if it had just been a Marvel NOW! style relaunch.

So if DC where to retcon him being Titan before moving on to Justice League then what do you expect to happen? Cyborg to talk about how he was a Titan every issue. Because that would get annoying quick.
Cyborg can be written well without being a Titan and this is coming from who was introduced to him from the animated series.

Also complaining that he's not the right black character for the justice because he's part metal is as ridiculous as saying light skinned characters aren't right because their not black enough.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

So if DC where to retcon him being Titan before moving on to Justice League then what do you expect to happen? Cyborg to talk about how he was a Titan every issue. Because that would get annoying quick.
Cyborg can be written well without being a Titan and this is coming from who was introduced to him from the animated series.

He doesn't have to talk about being a former Titan every issue for that history to be relevant. But whenever we examine Cyborg's past, I would like his time as a Titan to at least be part of the picture. And another thing, his time as a Titan is relevant for pretty much all of his relationships. Friends, allies, villains, you name it. He currently had no supporting cast or even friends. Beast Boy was the closest thing Cyborg had to a best friend in the comics and now that relationship has been thrown out the window because his past as a Titan has been thrown out the window.

A character's past is relevant to the way they interact with the world and people around him. Why does Scott Lang hate Dr. Doom? Well, because Doom once killed his daughter. What makes the Barbara Gordon particularly afraid of Joker? He once crippled her. Why are things tense between Dick Grayson and Starfire? They once almost got married and then called off their engagement. Why does Rogue hold a grudge against Scarlet Witch? Because of the events of House of M.

See, these are all examples of a character's past shaping their view of the world. Without it, they're not the same character.

Who are you? How did you meet your best friend? Did you have a good relationship with your parents? These are all things that you need a coherent and chronological past to answer.

[ed2962]

I can't speak for everyone, but I think the problem most people have is not the addition of Cyborg to the Justice League, it's the removal of not only his past relationships with the Titans, but the further removal of Martian Manhunter as a founding member.

It's no different from Black Canary replacing Wonder Woman. The Cyborg retcon is like that, but made worse because they didn't erase all of Dinah's past in order to do so.

That's literally exactly what they did post crisis. BC became a founding JLA member because they changed WW's history.

[GlennSimpson]

That's literally exactly what they did post crisis. BC became a founding JLA member because they changed WW's history.

OK, for clarity:

Post-Crisis - Wonder Woman's past changed dramatically (rebooted), Black Canary's past changed in minor ways (she joined the League earlier than she had the first time)

New52 - Martian Manhunter's past changed dramatically (rebooted, including not being a founder of the League), Cyborg's past changed dramatically (rebooted, including not being a member of the Titans, but also being a League founder).

I don't have a problem with any of it (arguably I prefer the New52 because it is more consistent) but just want to clarify.

It should be noted that DC put BC in not because of some special merit that BC had, but because they were trying to keep the old JLA stories more or less intact despite losing Wonder Woman's role in them.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

If Wally West fans got him back after 5 years then the fact people still want a Titans connection with Cyborg would someday have to be addressed. I personally do not care for a JL founding member Cyborg and see not reason why with Rebirth they can't retcon it back.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

OK, for clarity:

Post-Crisis - Wonder Woman's past changed dramatically (rebooted), Black Canary's past changed in minor ways (she joined the League earlier than she had the first time)

New52 - Martian Manhunter's past changed dramatically (rebooted, including not being a founder of the League), Cyborg's past changed dramatically (rebooted, including not being a member of the Titans, but also being a League founder).

I don't have a problem with any of it (arguably I prefer the New52 because it is more consistent) but just want to clarify.

It should be noted that DC put BC in not because of some special merit that BC had, but because they were trying to keep the old JLA stories more or less intact despite losing Wonder Woman's role in them.

And that inclusion of Black Canary helped her character greatly. Prior to that, she had mostly been relegated to being Green Arrow's girlfriend. Giving her founding member status, in addition to her previously established retcon of being the daughter of the original Black Canary, really brought the character into her own, with Birds of Prey as the cherry on top.

Of course, several creators & fans have a hard time seeing Dinah as anything other than Ollie's girlfriend in the same way that some fans can't see Cyborg as anything other than a Titan. I think both characters benefit by having all significant parts of their histories and relationships intact to make them better characters.

[Lemurion]

I think they're probably going to build some connections between Cyborg and the Titans, but probably won't go so far as to reinstate him as a member. As others have said, DC's going with the previous generation of Titans this time around, not the NTT. That's also why Starfire, Raven, and Gar are in Damian's Teen Titans book.

Yes, Cyborg as a JL founder feels weird to me, but that's mostly because I'm dealing with 30-odd years of him not being one in the back of my head more than anything. It's certainly not from missing Martian Manhunter. I started reading JL in the early 70's Satellite era when J'Onn wasn't a member, so my first exposure to J'Onn in the league was JLI in 1987 over a decade later.

As for why make Cyborg a founder? You can blame 50+ years of technological advancement for that. Yes there's an element of affirmative action, but if you think about it, his power set is what matters. Cyborg is the DCU's premiere technomancer. Back in 1960, that was irrelevant, but by 2011 with computers being everywhere putting a character who can control the Internet in the JL founding lineup just made good sense. They made the guy with Internet powers a founding Leaguer the same day they went for simultaneous print and digital release line-wide.

A 21st century Justice League couldn't form without an IT department; Cyborg was the best choice.