How do you feel about Duke Thomas?

[RedBird]

So, no, even Snyder himself doesn't particularly want to write about Duke, he just wants Duke to be there. This would still be somewhat doable, if Duke had an established personality, place in Batfamily or any kind of conflict that would enable people to write about of him, but there is a reason why Duke has not appeared anywhere else -- there is no story to tell.

Oh great, so Snyder isn't even gonna do the hard work of writing a decent and likable character, he is gonna dump that duty onto some other poor fella.

And considering that they have had to already resort to magical powers and buried secrets, I'm not confident that there will be something to write about in the future, either.

AND THIS. Again Snyder is doin his thang. Overblown and contrived plots that are 'changing the game' and have to do with ANOTHER secret that was kept either from or by Batman, the mans sitting on a million secrets apparently and ugh I'm so tired of that nonsense.

I mean I think Duke will fair MUCH better under another writer, but it still feels so cheap if Snyder really is gonna throw the burden onto another.

[Atlanta96]

This is the core of my problem. I think the truth is that Snyder wants Duke around, and wants SOMEONE to write his solo, but doesn't want to write it himself. But without Snyder actually writing or co-writing, it's just not going to sell, unless they have a talent out there who has flex in their schedule and name-brand status who could sell a Duke title on a level that would keep it going past a year.

I don't see DC having someone who could sell based on name alone who also has room for a Duke book. Unless I'm completely wrong, and Snyder is actually willing to take the time to write a Duke solo.

LOL yeah, how often is it that the creator of a character doesn't give a damn about their own creation? Snyder doesn't enjoy writing Duke, he has no investment in him, there was zero love put into his creation. This character is completely heartless, which is why he's doomed to fail.

I've compared Duke to Nickleback in the past. Mainly because, like the band, he was created to be a commercial success as opposed to actual art. Everything about his creation and conception seems designed to capitalize on trends, particularly the trend of young diverse heroes we've seen in comics lately. The lack of sincerity from his creator makes the comparison even closer. But unlike Nickleback, Duke doesn't really have an audience among comic fans. The industry just isn't designed for such a vapid and irrelevant character to take off.

[DragonPiece]

Scott is already writing Metal,All Star Batman(which is turning into something else I guess),New Challengers plus two indie books as well as teaching the DC writers program. I think if he had a lot of free time, he would write the Duke book, but obviously he is busy. Plus, as the head teacher for that DC writers thing, I am sure he would rather have one of his new students get a head start in the comics industry by working on the book rather than himself.

I agree with you guys to a point that he wants to see his own character succeed, I am sure most creators want that. Hell, if Gotham Girl survives, I'm sure King will be doing everything he can to make sure she becomes a mainstay in the universe.

[skyvolt2000]

Can't really blame people for asking why their favourite characters aren't getting any solo time to shine when DC is now apparently giving it up and willing to risk it for brand new nobodies.

Question where are all the complaints for books like Mother Panic, Jessica & Simon, Bug, Cave Carson, Midnighter and so on? Nobody asked for those books.

I have seen plenty of new guys get books over favorites and not see this much hatred towards them like we see towards Duke.

If folks are LEGIT in angers over new guys with books over favorites-all those new books without Duke should tank as a sign of protest.

Because right now SOMEONE is going to ask that question-why do we see a black male targeted this much? For all the pet comments and crap that can apply to so many others-why is he singled out?

The crapfest of Tim, Steph & Cassandra started BEFORE him. It would be different if it started after him but this song and dance has gone on 10+ years.

Their time has not passed-they are victims of politics beyond the writers. You don't crap on successful guys unless SOMEONE higher up doesn't care for them.

Babs will still be Oracle

Birds of Prey implies she still was Oracle.

[Atlanta96]

Question where are all the complaints for books like Mother Panic, Jessica & Simon, Bug, Cave Carson, Midnighter and so on? Nobody asked for those books.

I have seen plenty of new guys get books over favorites and not see this much hatred towards them like we see towards Duke.

If folks are LEGIT in angers over new guys with books over favorites-all those new books without Duke should tank as a sign of protest.

Because right now SOMEONE is going to ask that question-why do we see a black male targeted this much? For all the pet comments and crap that can apply to so many others-why is he singled out?

Hmm. Last time I checked, neither Jessica Cruz or Simon Baz are white. And as you pointed out people aren't really complaining about their book. You literally just contradicted your own argument just a few sentences apart. Hell, Cass Cain is one of the characters we feel is being screwed over by Duke's push and she is Asian. No one cares about Duke's race, he just sucks

[RedBird]

Question where are all the complaints for books like Mother Panic, Jessica & Simon, Bug, Cave Carson, Midnighter and so on? Nobody asked for those books.

I have seen plenty of new guys get books over favorites and not see this much hatred towards them like we see towards Duke.

If folks are LEGIT in angers over new guys with books over favorites-all those new books without Duke should tank as a sign of protest.

Because right now SOMEONE is going to ask that question-why do we see a black male targeted this much? For all the pet comments and crap that can apply to so many others-why is he singled out?

The crapfest of Tim, Steph & Cassandra started BEFORE him. It would be different if it started after him but this song and dance has gone on 10+ years.

Their time has not passed-they are victims of politics beyond the writers. You don't crap on successful guys unless SOMEONE higher up doesn't care for them.

Well first of all, NONE of those characters have direct relation to the Batfamily, and THAT helps. I mean have you seen the pissing contests here between even just the batboy threads? Its like legit sibling rivalry. All I was getting across with my quoted statement was that people are only concerned for THIS group of characters and when one gets something over the others, that 'fan anger' shouldn't be a surprise.

Second both Midnighter and Cave Carson have been around for a while, I dont think they count as much of a comparison.

Third, where are the complaints for those books? I don't know? Again, I refer back to point one. However different books have different circumstances, you can't compare something like that. For example Mother Panic, who was the closest example of a 'bat' character on that list, just appeared. She didnt show up randomly in the main batbooks, in certain plotlines. The character and concept was announced, the book launched, and boom new character, no time wasted, no mess, no fuss, no writer terrified of ACTUALLY establishing her role, she is now here for us to judge. You dont have to sit around and wait for her writer to reveal her name or purpose or personality.

Besides, I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you think that I believe Duke is some sort of 'causation' for the problem of irrelevance for some of the old Bat characters. I agree with you, their problems started way before Duke hit the scene. If you haven't noticed its not Duke I have a problem with, its Snyders piss poor writing. The sooner Duke gets a solo and is out of Snyders hands, the better he will be.

[darkseidpwns]

Scott is already writing Metal,All Star Batman(which is turning into something else I guess),New Challengers plus two indie books as well as teaching the DC writers program. I think if he had a lot of free time, he would write the Duke book, but obviously he is busy. Plus, as the head teacher for that DC writers thing, I am sure he would rather have one of his new students get a head start in the comics industry by working on the book rather than himself.

I agree with you guys to a point that he wants to see his own character succeed, I am sure most creators want that. Hell, if Gotham Girl survives, I'm sure King will be doing everything he can to make sure she becomes a mainstay in the universe.

Metal is a short term project and All Star is finished, it will continue in a much more flexible format. The other 3 books he doesn't have to write, if he's so passionate about Duke then he could dump all 3 in favor of a Duke book.
Most creators actually dont want that, they just want to tell a story and they create characters to service their stories. No one knows which characters will succeed and which wont, in DC this "push a character" for no reason trend is almost entirely a Snyder thing and its more of a Marvel/Bendis strategy. But all things considered its a recent thing, the creators with the most enduring creations will always express surprise at their success years after they created them.

[millernumber1]

Metal is a short term project and All Star is finished, it will continue in a much more flexible format. The other 3 books he doesn't have to write, if he's so passionate about Duke then he could dump all 3 in favor of a Duke book.
Most creators actually dont want that, they just want to tell a story and they create characters to service their stories. No one knows which characters will succeed and which wont, in DC this "push a character" for no reason trend is almost entirely a Snyder thing and its more of a Marvel/Bendis strategy. But all things considered its a recent thing, the creators with the most enduring creations will always express surprise at their success years after they created them.

I'm not convinced that's true. Cass herself was pushed really hard - starting with her creation in NML, along with the simultaneous creation of her father, and the launching of her solo after NML wrapped up. She had tons of cross overs and connections that gave her relationships to other characters in and out of her solo, plus AU appearances like the Ghost miniseries. I'd say Tim Drake was also pushed, but I think there's a need for a Robin that isn't quite the same as a Batgirl (and I want to stress that I say this as someone who likes most Batgirls more than all of the Robins), so it's more he filled a slot that desperately needed filling.

However, I think you're dead right on enduring creations being surprising to their creators - Steph Brown and Oracle were both created to serve a story, rather than a push, and gradually grew and expanded their fanbase and relationships. Same with characters like Shiva, Huntress, etc.

(Oooh, thought of another push - Hush seems like he was pushed pretty hard.)

[darkseidpwns]

I'm not convinced that's true. Cass herself was pushed really hard - starting with her creation in NML, along with the simultaneous creation of her father, and the launching of her solo after NML wrapped up. She had tons of cross overs and connections that gave her relationships to other characters in and out of her solo, plus AU appearances like the Ghost miniseries. I'd say Tim Drake was also pushed, but I think there's a need for a Robin that isn't quite the same as a Batgirl (and I want to stress that I say this as someone who likes most Batgirls more than all of the Robins), so it's more he filled a slot that desperately needed filling.

However, I think you're dead right on enduring creations being surprising to their creators - Steph Brown and Oracle were both created to serve a story, rather than a push, and gradually grew and expanded their fanbase and relationships. Same with characters like Shiva, Huntress, etc.

(Oooh, thought of another push - Hush seems like he was pushed pretty hard.)

Most pushes are editorial/corporate based which atleast makes sense. A creators job isn't to push, its to create stories, you mentioned Tim but it wasn't Wolfman who got him off the ground, Steph didn't get a series under Dixon, Oracle is not a Moore creation.
Duke got a shot at a corporate push when they gave him WAR, now he's a stubborn...something, I cant even call him a pet project, the World of Wakanda mini was a Coates pet project. If Duke doesn't get a Snyder written series then he doesn't even qualify as a pet project.

[millernumber1]

Most pushes are editorial/corporate based which atleast makes sense. A creators job isn't to push, its to create stories, you mentioned Tim but it wasn't Wolfman who got him off the ground, Steph didn't get a series under Dixon, Oracle is not a Moore creation.
Duke got a shot at a corporate push when they gave him WAR, now he's a stubborn...something, I cant even call him a pet project, the World of Wakanda mini was a Coates pet project. If Duke doesn't get a Snyder written series then he doesn't even qualify as a pet project.

I see - you're talking specifically about creator-specific pushes, like Morrison for Damian (and later Tomasi for Damian). Dixon actually did most of the popularizing (I don't think pushing fits what he did) for Tim, Steph, and Oracle, but it was, as you say, part of stories, not pushing.

Duke's a half-hearted push by a writer who tried to get corporate to push other things, didn't like the results, and now wants to push him by himself without actually having to write the book.

Unless Snyder is announced as writing a Duke book coming out of Metal. In which case...um...maybe he'll finally get some legitimate fans?

[jbmasta]

Maybe if Duke got a mini-series all about him and how he fits into the Batfamily, then he'd have a chance to shine instead of being relegated to the background.

[darkseidpwns]

Even Morrison used Damian to tell his story, that's why he killed the character when he felt his story was finished. Tomasi similarly wants to continue to tell Damian's story and help him grow as a character(and he gets nothing out of it either), Snyder just wants Duke to be the next big thing for no reason. In one of his interviews Snyder said that if Duke doesn't take off as a solo character then he'll atleast still be part of the Bat books. He's already convinced that Duke is a classic.

I've said it before and another poster said it in the previous page, Duke has no story. Its not even about having a story that I dont care for(Cassandra Cain) or dislike altogether( Harley Quinn), there is just no story behind him. Do we even know what Duke wants himself? last I checked it was Bruce who gave him an "offer" but what exactly are the terms, stipulations and outcomes of this offer? nothing.

[Godlike13]

What i don't get about Duke is why won't they tell us his superhero name. What are they trying trying to milk here. Get his superhero name out there already.

[jbmasta]

Even Morrison used Damian to tell his story, that's why he killed the character when he felt his story was finished. Tomasi similarly wants to continue to tell Damian's story and help him grow as a character(and he gets nothing out of it either), Snyder just wants Duke to be the next big thing for no reason. In one of his interviews Snyder said that if Duke doesn't take off as a solo character then he'll atleast still be part of the Bat books. He's already convinced that Duke is a classic.

I've said it before and another poster said it in the previous page, Duke has no story. Its not even about having a story that I dont care for(Cassandra Cain) or dislike altogether( Harley Quinn), there is just no story behind him. Do even know what Duke wants himself? last I checked it was Bruce who gave him an "offer" but what exactly are the terms, stipulations and outcomes of this offer? nothing.

Stop trying to make Duke happen. It's not going to happen!

And that offer was made just over a year ago, with nothing mentioned of it since that I remember.

[darkseidpwns]

Stop trying to make Duke happen. It's not going to happen!

And that offer was made just over a year ago, with nothing mentioned of it since that I remember.

Yes, that offer could have been the hook for Duke's development but instead it was just used to just put him next to Batman. Instead he appears behind a monitor and gets teased to a marriage with Gotham Girl, hilarious. Over at All Star he shows in forgettable back ups focusing on some vague wheel and then those end abruptly so that Snyder can push him in Dark Days where his mother is some immortal in a gang of immortals and he's got powers now too. Before all this he was running around as a wannabe Robin. The shifts and turns are idiotic to say the least.