How do you feel about Duke Thomas?

[Maxpower00044]

He's a fine character. I don't love him, but I don't hate him, either. It's funny, this happened when Jason, Tim, & Damian were created and it won't stop anytime a character is created. People are protective of their pet characters.

For the record I find Tim Drake and Jason Todd extremely boring as characters. You'll never hear me say they need to get rid of them, though. I just don't give a **** that much about ancillary characters (except Dick and Damian).

This is also a loaded poll. No middle ground just "love him" or "hate him"? There should be an option for "like him". "Give him time" is a non answer.

I'll say it here too, whenever I read a scene with Duke in it and I realize it's making some get all upset, I can't help but laugh and think how petty it is.

[Soldy]

Duke has a relationship with Damian

What? What relationship? Dick has a relationship with Damian, not Duke.

I don't like him simply because DC is forcing him too much and Duke is too cocky for no reason. That guy hasn't done anything impressive, and he needs to drop this 'Robin doesn't need Batman' attitude. Right now he's just dull and boring character with no personality.

Look at Damian. That's how you create a new, unique character with an interesting backstory and clearly defined personality. But it was Grant Morrison, a genius. Maybe Snyder just incapable of creating such a great character.

[sunofdarkchild]

However, I agree with you that Duke needs to get his own thing. "Duke Thomas" will never have the same kind of ring as Batman, Robin, Batgirl, or even Black Bat, Spoiler, Orphan, or Bluebird. He needs to be Lark or someone **** quick. I hate how Snyder feels he's being so cute with not revealing Duke's identity. He should learn from the masters, like Chuck Dixon, or the failures of the masters, like Greg Rucka. Dixon created Spoiler first, and then revealed Steph's identity. Result: a character with almost 25 years of history and a passionate fanbase (and some equally passionate anti-fans . Rucka tried so hard to make Sasha Bordeaux a thing (and I personally love her dearly), but...no one knows about her. When he's not writing her, no one cares about her. Now, if she were a Shield agent, she might have a chance - see also, Maria Hill. But Marvel and DC's secret organizations don't work the same way - DC's Checkmate etc are more likely to oppose our heros than work with them, so even though Rucka is a great writer, she's not one of his legacies, and I really think that's because he never bothered to give her a name, even when she got a costume.

I don't believe that that was the reason Spoiler became a mainstay. First off she was first shown at home and was named several times as 'Stephanie' by her mother and Tim before she first used the name Spoiler on panel.

The thing about how Dixon initially wrote Steph is that he created her only to serve the needs of a specific plot. It never crossed his mind that he was creating a new member of the bat-family or leaving his mark on the franchise. He just needed a new character to facilitate his story of 'what if a criminal like the Riddler got over his mental problem and just committed elaborate crimes without leaving any clues beforehand.' It happened that reception was good enough and he ended up liking his own creation enough that she was brought back when the Robin solo started.

The contrast with Duke and Harper is apparent. In Steph's case good writing and likeability came before any push to make her into a big deal. She arguably had no push until the debacle where they made her Robin for 3 issues. But with the characters introduced in Nu52 it's been painfully obvious that the push came without much regard for the needs of the story and the writing is suffering because of it. They don't serve the story. The story serves them.

[Caivu]

Why do people think the Batfamily is so overcrowded? Do they feel there is a character who isn't getting the love they deserve?

It's because Gotham is such a small, peaceful city, so having so many vigilantes is unnecessary.

But seriously, I don't get that complaint either.

[Lhynn]

What? What relationship? Dick has a relationship with Damian, not Duke.

Actually they are best friends. That was their stablished relationship after robin war and that nonsense.

Look at Damian. That's how you create a new, unique character with an interesting backstory and clearly defined personality. But it was Grant Morrison, a genius. Maybe Snyder just incapable of creating such a great character.

Tsundere princess of the ninja clan is at least a better backstory than the throwaway one they gave duke. Not sure id call the writer a genius tho.

[sunofdarkchild]

It's because Gotham is such a small, peaceful city, so having so many vigilantes is unnecessary.

But seriously, I don't get that complaint either.

If the characters seem to have their places and roles then it doesn't matter how many there are, but if multiple characters seem to have no purpose or direction the batfamily will seem overcrowded even if it has fewer members.

[JBatmanFan05]

If the characters seem to have their places and roles then it doesn't matter how many there are, but if multiple characters seem to have no purpose or direction the batfamily will seem overcrowded even if it has fewer members.

I agree.

Look at Damian. That's how you create a new, unique character with an interesting backstory and clearly defined personality. But it was Grant Morrison, a genius. Maybe Snyder just incapable of creating such a great character.

If a character doesn't catch fire by a certain point, they never will. This is a good comment because at some point, you have to wonder if Duke will catch any fire with fans like Damian has. With Duke and Harper now, maybe Snyder is just not as capable in the new sidekick department like Morrison and Dixon and others.

[MajorHoy]

The very first issue of We Are Robin had him getting into fights and being very disrespectful to some girls at his school (he thinks he has good reason, but with what happens with Izzy and Riko in the rest of the book, I regard his self-justification as potentially unreliable). After Robin War, he ignores Riko's attempts to contact him, knowing that she has feelings for him (unless he's completely blind, which doesn't seem likely, given how smart he's supposed to be), and when she confronts him about dating Izzy, he plays dumb, hurting her more. Some of this could be Bermejo's...um...inexperience at writing, but it's not handled well at all, and seriously damaged my interest and liking for him.

But, are you ignoring another part of the back-story at that time?
Right after "Endgame", Duke's parents were missing and the city itself was still in turmoil. He was trying to avoid the "foster" situation and was desperately trying to find what had become of his family. That's a bit of a "distraction" that may have an impact on how he interacts with others, especially depending on how open he was with other people his age regarding the status of his parents.

[millernumber1]

What? What relationship? Dick has a relationship with Damian, not Duke.

I don't like him simply because DC is forcing him too much and Duke is too cocky for no reason. That guy hasn't done anything impressive, and he needs to drop this 'Robin doesn't need Batman' attitude. Right now he's just dull and boring character with no personality.

Look at Damian. That's how you create a new, unique character with an interesting backstory and clearly defined personality. But it was Grant Morrison, a genius. Maybe Snyder just incapable of creating such a great character.

Haha, that's kinda funny, because I really, really dislike Grant Morrison's writing. He's got brilliant ideas, but his execution of them is so expositiony and in your face weird it's a massive turn off for me. I love Damian because of what BQM did with him in Batgirl, and Tomasi and Gleason, to a lesser extent.

But really, read Robin War 1 and 2 (and maybe the Grayson issue). Skip everything else - it all is terrible. But Tom King had Duke and Damian have an almost Steph and Damian type rapport.

I don't believe that that was the reason Spoiler became a mainstay. First off she was first shown at home and was named several times as 'Stephanie' by her mother and Tim before she first used the name Spoiler on panel.

The thing about how Dixon initially wrote Steph is that he created her only to serve the needs of a specific plot. It never crossed his mind that he was creating a new member of the bat-family or leaving his mark on the franchise. He just needed a new character to facilitate his story of 'what if a criminal like the Riddler got over his mental problem and just committed elaborate crimes without leaving any clues beforehand.' It happened that reception was good enough and he ended up liking his own creation enough that she was brought back when the Robin solo started.

The contrast with Duke and Harper is apparent. In Steph's case good writing and likeability came before any push to make her into a big deal. She arguably had no push until the debacle where they made her Robin for 3 issues. But with the characters introduced in Nu52 it's been painfully obvious that the push came without much regard for the needs of the story and the writing is suffering because of it. They don't serve the story. The story serves them.

I mean, yes, I think you're probably right, but we didn't see Steph connected with Spoiler first - we saw her in civvies, then Spoiler being awesome, then they were revealed as the same person and Spoiler in the second issue.

I'm not convinced she had no push - Jon Lewis definitely made her a big part of his run on Robin - but after Dixon left, she did tend to be left out of everything unless it was to show Batman hated her (Gotham Knights, I'm looking at you).

I, personally, mostly enjoyed Harper's stories. Not all of them (Batman Eternal #51 was an almost catastrophic mis-step), but most of them were fun. I do think there's a problem with Tynion's juggling of Harper and the two characters she is closest to - Steph and Cass - but I don't think Harper's story was bad. I feel that Duke's problem is Snyder is antagonizing the old-school fans for no reason (he could push Duke without writing these kinds of idiotic things).

[Maxpower00044]

Actually they are best friends. That was their stablished relationship after robin war and that nonsense.


Tsundere princess of the ninja clan is at least a better backstory than the throwaway one they gave duke. Not sure id call the writer a genius tho.

Grant Morrison is a genius, and one of the best writers superhero comics has ever had and ever will have.

[millernumber1]

But, are you ignoring another part of the back-story at that time?
Right after "Endgame", Duke's parents were missing and the city itself was still in turmoil. He was trying to avoid the "foster" situation and was desperately trying to find what had become of his family. That's a bit of a "distraction" that may have an impact on how he interacts with others, especially depending on how open he was with other people his age regarding the status of his parents.

Yes, that's true, but your own problems are not an excuse for treating others badly. They can be a reason, and even a sympathetic one, but it's not good action on his part in either case.

[JasonTodd428]

It's because Gotham is such a small, peaceful city, so having so many vigilantes is unnecessary.

But seriously, I don't get that complaint either.

I don't either. I've been reading Batman for decades and I've seen a LOT of additions made to the Bat Family over the years. Duke is just another one in a long string of additions to the Family and frankly I don't have a problem with Snyder (or any other writer for that matter) making such additions.

Actually they are best friends. That was their stablished relationship after robin war and that nonsense.

I wouldn't say they are "best friends" at all. That scene read more like they were just going to go hanging out together to me.

[Orujo-man]

The very first issue of We Are Robin had him getting into fights and being very disrespectful to some girls at his school (he thinks he has good reason, but with what happens with Izzy and Riko in the rest of the book, I regard his self-justification as potentially unreliable). After Robin War, he ignores Riko's attempts to contact him, knowing that she has feelings for him (unless he's completely blind, which doesn't seem likely, given how smart he's supposed to be), and when she confronts him about dating Izzy, he plays dumb, hurting her more. Some of this could be Bermejo's...um...inexperience at writing, but it's not handled well at all, and seriously damaged my interest and liking for him.

I can see...mmm I don't think Bermejo written bad that or Duke are stupid. You know, sometimes us (men) in that ages we are not than.... perceptive like women, usually girls mature their mentality earlier than us. I know for own experience that kind of situations happens.

Normally in these ages we are more occupied doing stupid things. Funny, but stupid things.

[BFF]

I've ranted about Duke before, so I'll try and go easier on him after this (by not mentioning him). Duke has been around for 3 years now. When they started pushing him in We Are Robin and Robin War, he was boring. His defenders said give him time to develop a personality. He is now being pushed in 2 major Bat-books. He is still boring. His defenders still say give him time to develop. What if, 2 years from now, he is still as boring as ever. Will his defenders keep urging his detractors to be patient with him? At what point do you just admit that a character is bland and poorly conceived?

This is why I have no patience with Duke, we shouldn't have to be patient to see his potential.

Look how easy Seeley did it with Raptor. I agree with the people who are saying that if it's going to happen, it would've happened by now for Duke.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

All Star Batman is his only hope that he has to find a path however Snyder DOES have a terrible track record with his characters lasting beyond their initial run starting all the way back with Talon. He just was trying to do this in a era when many other beloved fan bases where wanting for better story and attention so no matter what he did there was always going to be someone asking about Damian, Spoiler, Black Bat, better Tim etc. because that is where demand is, Snyder played it wrong by just completely ignoring the existence of Damian Wayne ( I understand his reasons) which started the momentum which was stoked by a series called Batman & Robin Eternal completely revolving around his character and during the process having them belittled until the very end when they had Bruce say nice things as some cheap cop out. Harper & Duke will fail because Snyder and co. have pitted them against the larger fanbases by ranking them, heaping unbelievable praise on and untrained character, and depicted other characters as secondary.

Damian acted this way but was corralled by Dick Grayson in less than 6 issues. They have written Harper and Duke as monotone by consistently acting like the know everything while learning 0 lessons, they are slow playing their development too much.