Magneto as a good guy or an antagonist?

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Magneto has been opposed but not always provoked, and when Magneto responds he goes way overboard, a sub shoots a missile at him and he murders the entire crew, I'm sure that the cook deserved it, the guy that cleans the crews clothes deserved it...Magneto defenders often seem to blame his victims...sure Wolverine has killed a lot of people, but Magneto is the one that just blanket murders large groups of people with no regard for guilt or innocence, a bit like saying that every German person alive during WW2 was a Nazi and should be killed...

[JasonEsta]

If someone tries to kill you, you're gonna go more than overboard. You got people that kill over pretty women everyday..ego. They KILL for that and for money more than anything but that's society.

[yogaflame]

Here's the thing, if mutants are so great, and gods of the earth, why even bother? That sub that fired a nuke did so in retaliation for the city Magneto turned to ash by ripping open the earth's crust and letting the magma consume it. Sure, he did it slowly, let them evacuate, but he still destroyed a whole city! Of course they were gonna hit him with some nukes! But for Magneto, nukes aren't really a threat. He could have just disabled the sub's launching capacities and scolded the crew and their commanders, showing them their best weapons are useless against him and had the moral high ground as well! Let the humans be petty animals, and let the mutants be the enlightened masters of the world. But instead, he always brings himself down to their level.

I enjoyed Claremont's Magneto arc from classical silver age villain to tortured complexity to New Mutants headmaster, but that X-Men #1-3(1991) story basically reset him back to square one, and the later writers really poured on some deviousness through the rest of the 90's. Even if we ignore Morrison's whole Xorn-is-Magneto and all that(like herding thousands of NYCers into ovens!), there are still several world-ending pole flips and power-outages that went far beyond just engagement with enemy combatants. Such wide-scale, indiscriminate, callous application of force just renders his more noble traits mute, leaving him out of the hero category and putting him firmly in the 'complex villain' category, where he shines as the brightest example in the entire mainstream medium(Dr. Doom being his only nearby rival).

[Xelossik]

JasonEsta

Rogue would disagree considering how she's alive today because of him.

True, but she is good. For her Schism was: "AH see a good man following his conscience for the very best reasons. Trouble is, Ah see that twice."

It doesn't change the fact that Rogue rescued Magnus few times. Probably more than Magnus her life.

yogaflame :
You are right about Magneto

[LoganAlpha30X33]

If someone tries to kill you, you're gonna go more than overboard. You got people that kill over pretty women everyday..ego. They KILL for that and for money more than anything but that's society.

If someone tried to kill me I wouldn't go and kill their entire family and their friends, unlike Magneto...the point about the sub was that after murdering the entire crew Magneto never once even thought about them until he was face to face with their corpses...and even then...

[JudicatorPrime]

If someone tried to kill me I wouldn't go and kill their entire family and their friends, unlike Magneto...the point about the sub was that after murdering the entire crew Magneto never once even thought about them until he was face to face with their corpses...and even then...

And yet plenty of people have tried to kill Magneto and have killed many of his friends and family in the process. By now I imagine that this is the new normal, the terms of engagement for someone like Magneto. Consociated soft targets are fair game, and collateral damage is to be expected. I don't doubt that Magneto suffers from PTSD and is always at war in his own mind. Nothing else quite explains the escalation in brutality and reciprocity. He probably should register his penchant for balancing the scales and his survival instinct as mutant abilities in themselves.

Walking in Magneto's shoes, I honestly don't know how far I would go in response to threats, had I survived State-sponsored genocide as a child and was routinely hunted by individuals who wanted me dead by any means for the next 80+ years of my life. Sure, he brought some of that on himself, but ultimately he was an innocent before someone delivered death to his door. I don't think I'd ever forget that. I'm fairly certain that I would make sure that anyone who crossed me would suffer gravely for it.

[JasonEsta]

JasonEsta

True, but she is good. For her Schism was: "AH see a good man following his conscience for the very best reasons. Trouble is, Ah see that twice."

It doesn't change the fact that Rogue rescued Magnus few times. Probably more than Magnus her life.

yogaflame :
You are right about Magneto

Well Magneto is definitely a Good enough man to save a Rogue that any other other villain would never risk or try to save in any capacity. And Rogue and Magneto is much more complex than your summary. She knows how far he'll go and never turns on him for it. How can she? He is the one who wanted to safeguard mutants the most.

And Rogue has been there for Erik Lehnsherr but never than when she was in a more dire situation than against Proteus in India or the Savage Land.

[JasonEsta]

If someone tried to kill me I wouldn't go and kill their entire family and their friends, unlike Magneto...the point about the sub was that after murdering the entire crew Magneto never once even thought about them until he was face to face with their corpses...and even then...

In truth? Magneto should be much worse than he is considering how his parents and daughter died.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

So because your parents were murdered it allows you to murder whoever you see fit as long as you believe that they've wronged you...again blaming the victims for their deaths...if someone tried to murder me I wouldn't go after anyone that hadn't helped and even then I wouldn't kill them...Magneto had plenty of chances to pull back but he didn't...he fits the name...monster...

[JudicatorPrime]

I am reminded of the loved ones of murder victims who somehow find it in their hearts to forgive the criminals, especially in those instances where the perpetrators were found "not guilty" in a court of law. I don't know if there is a heaven, but if there is one, a special demesne for forgiving souls like that should be carved out and reserved for all time. That is just absolutely amazing to me that anyone can be that forgiving. As troubling as it may sound, I am glad that Magneto lacks that capacity for absolute forgiveness. Sometimes the abyss wins, and when it does, the darkness magnifies. Monster or not, I don't know that Magneto would be as complex or intriguing -- and popular -- if he was written any other way.

[Michael Watkins]

Magneto has been opposed but not always provoked, and when Magneto responds he goes way overboard, a sub shoots a missile at him and he murders the entire crew, I'm sure that the cook deserved it, the guy that cleans the crews clothes deserved it...Magneto defenders often seem to blame his victims...sure Wolverine has killed a lot of people, but Magneto is the one that just blanket murders large groups of people with no regard for guilt or innocence, a bit like saying that every German person alive during WW2 was a Nazi and should be killed...

the cook and cleaner did deserve it. they were complicit in the attack. what moron boards a submarine w/o considering that they might be fired upon?

[Michael Watkins]

So because your parents were murdered it allows you to murder whoever you see fit as long as you believe that they've wronged you...again blaming the victims for their deaths...if someone tried to murder me I wouldn't go after anyone that hadn't helped and even then I wouldn't kill them...Magneto had plenty of chances to pull back but he didn't...he fits the name...monster...

you have a fundamental misunderstanding about his belief system. there is no right and wrong. there's mutant and non-mutant. humans used him as a weapon to kill Nazis. then, when he was no longer useful, they attempted to kill him. an they created sentinels to hunt mutants (prior to Magneto's debut). he's seen first hand how arbitrary laws are. it's not about being allowed to do something. if you have the will and the ability, you do it. and you'd better do it before your enemy.

[Michael Watkins]

If someone tried to kill me I wouldn't go and kill their entire family and their friends, unlike Magneto...the point about the sub was that after murdering the entire crew Magneto never once even thought about them until he was face to face with their corpses...and even then...

Magneto killed the people on a submarine who tried to kill him, first (he didn't go after their friend and family). they wouldn't have wasted much time thinking about his corpse. why should he behave differently? his being horrified by the remains makes him more human than some of those same soldiers. think about it. they didn't know Magneto personally. but they were perfectly ok with killing him; because he was flying around.

[Xelossik]

Well Magneto is definitely a Good enough man to save a Rogue that any other other villain would never risk or try to save in any capacity.

Unless this villain has a name like : Mystique or Lady Mastermind or Sabertooth.

And Rogue and Magneto is much more complex than your summary.

True. I can writer few pages and it still be not enough.

She knows how far he'll go and never turns on him for it.

True about her. We can't say this about him right?

Plus Rogue today? It is hard to say. She was ready to sacrifice her whole team during missions. She doesn't even know if she is X man or not.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Magneto killed the people on a submarine who tried to kill him, first (he didn't go after their friend and family). they wouldn't have wasted much time thinking about his corpse. why should he behave differently? his being horrified by the remains makes him more human than some of those same soldiers. think about it. they didn't know Magneto personally. but they were perfectly ok with killing him; because he was flying around.

Actually I don't remember him being to horrified by the remains if at all, he hadn't given them a second thought until he'd come face to face with them...how are the cook and the laundry guy/lady complicit in the attack, they didn't order or carry out the attack on Magneto or have anything to do with it, the people on the sub didn't create any sentinel or anything else to kill mutants, any human has the will and the ability that they could kill if they wanted to, doesn't mean that we will or should or don't have any guilt or remorse about murdering large amounts of people...unlike Magneto, who commits mass murder without a second thought about those that he's murdering...including women and children...