Could a "Golden Age" Black Canary be in DC's future?

[Jim Kelly]

In another thread ("DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC") the original 5G timeline was revealed.Of interest re: Black Canary,

Weird how that timeline would have pushed the first appearance of some heroes far ahead in time and others way back in time.

Dinah Drake didn't appear until 1947. Yet this would have had her entering the picture all the way back in 1940. You'd think they would want to have her younger not older. But I guess they wanted to add another woman to the wartime adventures. Still, they could have given bigger roles to Hawkgirl, Inza, Red Tornado and other women that were around back then.

How is Easy Company already active in Europe in 1941 when the U.S. only declared war on Germany on December 11th, 1941--were they a secret invasion force operating outside of the law?

Baby Kal-L only arrives on Earth in 1938. Bruce is born in 1943--the same year as Zatanna is born--making him too young to be Batman in the 1940s, while Zatanna would have been the same age as him and 21 in 1964 (the year she actually first appears).

In real history, Wonder Woman became more active with the J.S.A. after the war--mainly because William Marston had died and no longer controlled her appearances in ALL-STAR COMICS. But this timeline would remove her entirely from the post-war adventures.

All in all, it seems like a timeline designed to satisfy no one.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Dinah Drake didn't appear until 1947. Yet this would have had her entering the picture all the way back in 1940. You'd think they would want to have her younger not older. But I guess they wanted to add another woman to the wartime adventures. Still, they could have given bigger roles to Hawkgirl, Inza, Red Tornado and other women that were around back then...

Well, back then, Inza wasn't doing much in the magic department herself yet (at least from what I've read in a few scattered reprints) and Red Tornado was really a comical/joke character.
Off-hand, I'm not sure who else besides Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl, and Liberty Belle they had from the actual Golden Age. If you include characters from Quality Comics and Fawcett Comics that adds Phantom Lady; Miss America; USA, "The Spirit of Old Glory"; and Spider Widow (the latter two I don't think DC ever used) from Quality Comics, as well as Bulletgirl from Fawcett. (Also if you want, Mary Marvel from Fawcett, but DC would probably save her for more modern times.)

Retconned characters created after WWII but later used in stories that take place then would be Firebrand (Danette Reilly), Fury (Helena Kosmatos), Tigress (Paula Brooks, an earlier identity for Golden Age Huntress), and Tsunami (Miya Shimada).

Oh, and in the thread were they discuss the 5G timeline plan, I also questioned having Easy Company already active in Europe in 1941 instead of 1942 for the reason you mention.

[Jim Kelly]

Well, back then, Inza wasn't doing much in the magic department herself yet (at least from what I've read in a few scattered reprints) and Red Tornado was really a comical/joke character.

In the first twelve Doctor Fate stories, Inza has more of a character than the Doc himself. After that, Fate finally gets an origin story and is revealed to be Kent Nelson. But in the first year of the series, it's Inza who is doing the character motivation and the plot driving.

Anyway, faithfulness to the original stories hardly seems to be on the minds of the Powers That Be. They're quite willing to make the characters do things they never did in the original run.

In ALL-STAR COMICS 15--Inza, Shiera, Myra, Doris, Dian, Peachy, Mary all played a part in the adventure--which was reworked for STARMAN 69. So I think, if they wanted to increase the female standings, they could extrapolate from that. Doesn't Dian Belmont have a more active role in SANDMAN MYSTERY THEATRE?

[MajorHoy]

In the first twelve Doctor Fate stories, Inza has more of a character than the Doc himself. After that, Fate finally gets an origin story and is revealed to be Kent Nelson. But in the first year of the series, it's Inza who is doing the character motivation and the plot driving.

Anyway, faithfulness to the original stories hardly seems to be on the minds of the Powers That Be. They're quite willing to make the characters do things they never did in the original run.

In ALL-STAR COMICS 15--Inza, Shiera, Myra, Doris, Dian, Peachy, Mary all played a part in the adventure--which was reworked for STARMAN 69. So I think, if they wanted to increase the female standings, they could extrapolate from that. Doesn't Dian Belmont have a more active role in SANDMAN MYSTERY THEATRE?

"More active" for Inza and Dian didn't necessarily mean superhero-style heroics. I think their roles would maybe be closer to a Lois Lane than to a Wonder Woman or Black Canary.

[MajorHoy]

Two, small cameos off the top of my head

First in the Flash Forward epilogue that was suppose to be for the FCBD Generation Zero issue, but ended up being published as part of the TPB, there is a one panel scene of the golden age JSA including her alongside Wonder Woman, Flash, GL, and Hawkman.

And since that picture would have been part of the whole 5G change that later got dropped (and Bleeding Cool has later released what was suppose to be the new DC Timeline for that project):

In another thread ("DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC") the original 5G timeline was revealed.

Bleeding Cool posted the full (aborted) timeline:
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/firs...ine-dan-didio/

Of interest re: Black Canary,

DC Generation 1: Dawn of The Heroic Age – 25 Year Time Window
25 Year Time Compression
1938 Year 1 (G1 – Y1) Krypton explodes. Rocket crashes in Smallville. Wonder Woman debuts, Steve Trevor crashes on Themescyria. Ma Kent (25) Pa Kent (25).
1939 Year 2 (G1 – Y2) Jay Garrick debuts as The Flash. Alan Scott debuts as the Green Lantern. Zatara debuts as a stage magician. Dan Garrett debuts as Blue Beetle. Blackhawk assembles Crew. Jay (25) Alan (25) Zatara (26) Garrett (27)
1940 Year 3 (G1 – Y3) JSA. Wonder Woman joins JSA. Jay joins JSA. Alan joins JSA. Dinah Drake debuts as Black Canary. Dinah (21). . . .

. . . 1949 Year 12 (G1 – Y12) Dinah Lance born.

Maybe the next question will be if the idea of a Black Canary being active during World War II is still likely?

[MajorHoy]

. . . Maybe the next question will be if the idea of a Black Canary being active during World War II is still likely?

Still waiting to see if / when DC ever clears up who / when there ever was a "Golden Age" Black Canary . . .

[MajorHoy]

One other thing to add confusion to all this: back in October of 2022, there was the holiday-themed one-shot DC's Terrors Through Time.


Among the stories was one with Justice Society of America that takes place in 1944 that includes Black Canary.


However, I never know if DC ever considers these one-shot stories to be "canon" or not.

[MajorHoy]

Black Canary is shown in an image (from Wes' dreams) of members of the Justice Society of America for a preview of Wesley Dodds: The Sandman #1, but no information is given regarding when she joined.

[CaptCleghorn]

Black Canary is shown in an image (from Wes' dreams) of members of the Justice Society of America for a preview of Wesley Dodds: The Sandman #1, but no information is given regarding when she joined.

Wildcat didn't show up until later on as well. It's possible that the characters were selected in order to avoid pinning Canary down to the early JSA days.

[MajorHoy]

Wildcat didn't show up until later on as well. It's possible that the characters were selected in order to avoid pinning Canary down to the early JSA days.

These days, I don't know if people at DC know / care when characters joined the JSA.

When Scott Snyder was writing Justice League back in 2019, this was the Justice Society teams he had Barry Allen and John Stewart meet in the past:


And when did that meeting happen?


Now, unless all of time had been thrown out of whack by events and then was put back in order when all was said and done, that line-up doesn't make sense for December 1941.

[CaptCleghorn]

These days, I don't know if people at DC know / care when characters joined the JSA.

When Scott Snyder was writing Justice League back in 2019, this was the Justice Society teams he had Barry Allen and John Stewart meet in the past:

And when did that meeting happen?

Now, unless all of time had been thrown out of whack by events and then was put back in order when all was said and done, that line-up doesn't make sense for December 1941.

This was a time thrown out of whack situation with hypertime specifically mentioned. As far as membership goes, despite the rosters listed in every issue of All-Star Comics, it's probable that the JSA would have had other adventures not told. The difference for me is that the JL/JS teamup pages you posted as well as the Per Degaton panel from Sandman reflect specific adventures. Guest Stars show up and may have all sorts of membership status levels. The panel with BC and Wildcat in the Sandman dream seemed to me to be a general vision and not a specific point in space and time.

I'm not sure if DC knows or cares about a set Golden Age JSA roster, but they may just feel it's not worth the effort. The fans who want to see a Roy Thomas level continuity map are decreasing in number and the trend away from this type of superhero story is not helping to replace those old school fans (of which I am one).

I'm thinking a Black Label ongoing book for the JSA would be a good solution. Keep the current whatever DC's main Earth is call this week's JSA and supporting characters as is and with how they currently fit into continuity. But do a more old school "What if Earth Two survived COIE?" situation with an out of continuity Black Label book.

[MajorHoy]

The panel with BC and Wildcat in the Sandman dream seemed to me to be a general vision and not a specific point in space and time.

Oh, I agree entirely with that. That was also why I mentioned

Black Canary is shown in an image (from Wes' dreams) of members of the Justice Society of America for a preview of Wesley Dodds: The Sandman #1, but no information is given regarding when she joined.

But at least it was another indication of there being a Golden Age-era Black Canary.
We just need DC to finally give us some details as to when she first appeared in current continuity / if she has been retconned to have any sonic powers or not / and what her current connection (if any) to present-day Black Canary is.

[Wally West]

I’m confused….there’s always been a golden age black canary. It’s black canary’s mom she was in the justice society. There’s a whole storyline about it in JLA Year One by Mark Waid. Why is this suddenly a mystery?

[CaptCleghorn]

I’m confused….there’s always been a golden age black canary. It’s black canary’s mom she was in the justice society. There’s a whole storyline about it in JLA Year One by Mark Waid. Why is this suddenly a mystery?

One could possibly say the GA Canary was born as late as 1930. That gives us 93 years to split between modern Dinah and the age of her mother giving birth. You could Dinah born when her mother was 46 or 47 and be 46 or 47 now. If you want to make one younger, then the other has to age. It's basically the same problem the Infinitors have having mothers who were adults in the 1940s.

[MajorHoy]

One could possibly say the GA Canary was born as late as 1930. That gives us 93 years to split between modern Dinah and the age of her mother giving birth. You could Dinah born when her mother was 46 or 47 and be 46 or 47 now. If you want to make one younger, then the other has to age. It's basically the same problem the Infinitors have having mothers who were adults in the 1940s.

Plus, the "modern day" Black Canary had her previous origin(s) tossed out during the New52 where she was no longer raised as the daughter of the original Black Canary, and since Rebirth back in 2016, I'm not aware of anything that has changed that origin back to the previous version. (Haven't her links to "Team 7" been mentioned since then?)

Now, this thread was originally started back in 2016, before DC finally officially gave us back the Justice Society of America, but there are still many questions (that may never get answered) as to what parts of their past are still as they were and what revisions DC may have made as to what's "canon" and what is no longer in play.