Captain America #5 Reveals Steve Rogers’ Civil War II Secrets [SPOILERS]

[XPac]

This is just me personally but I actually liked this more then what Bendis did mainly because it actually makes sense and is far more interesting. The idea that Steve as a hydra agent is trying to undermine and weaken the foundation of the Marvel universe by using Ulysses while also being careful as to not set off one of his visions is actually something that feels organic to this plot and to CWII itself. The problem however is that if you aren't reading this series or are unaware of what's going on in it then it doesn't do much for the main story now does it.

I think that's the balance events and their tie in need to have. They should add to the main story without being required reading. And this is a pretty good example of that.

[Tycon]

so which Hulk do the Hand resurrect from the dead?

Ah.....ok......you could've let me win this one.....

(so I guess when they resurrected Bruce, or whatever, they also revived the dead gamma cells as well....or at least that's my theory)

[Tofali]

the civil war 2 tie ins have been better than the main thing.

The reveal about hydracap is clever and make him a major player on the shadows

Could an Event centered around HydraCap work?

[Frontier]

Could an Event centered around HydraCap work?

With all the books that involve HydraCap and the Red Skull plot, I'm starting to think one is in the works...

[Kurolegacy]

It's official, I hate this story more than Superior Spider-Man. Sure Superior had a villain take over Peter's body and fool everyone but even with his extreme methods at least Otto was doing good and trying to be a hero. This is just an entire storyline that makes one of the most beloved characters in the MU clearly the villain with no sign of the heroic resolve he's famous for. And what is the point of these flashbacks we keep getting when we the audience are completely aware that they're false? It's only been 5 issues and it feels like this storyline is just gonna drag on for the next year.

[Frontier]

It's official, I hate this story more than Superior Spider-Man. Sure Superior had a villain take over Peter's body and fool everyone but even with his extreme methods at least Otto was doing good and trying to be a hero. This is just an entire storyline that makes one of the most beloved characters in the MU clearly the villain with no sign of the heroic resolve he's famous for. And what is the point of these flashbacks we keep getting when we the audience are completely aware that they're false? It's only been 5 issues and it feels like this storyline is just gonna drag on for the next year.

I'm wondering if this is going to mess up Steve and his life more then SpOck ultimately did Peter's or is it all going to be brushed under the rug as easily once Steve is restored?

Will Spencer even deal with the aftermath or just hand it to the next Cap writer?

[Prof. Warren]

It's official, I hate this story more than Superior Spider-Man. Sure Superior had a villain take over Peter's body and fool everyone but even with his extreme methods at least Otto was doing good and trying to be a hero. This is just an entire storyline that makes one of the most beloved characters in the MU clearly the villain with no sign of the heroic resolve he's famous for. And what is the point of these flashbacks we keep getting when we the audience are completely aware that they're false? It's only been 5 issues and it feels like this storyline is just gonna drag on for the next year.

Well, if it's not for you, you can always hop off. No harm, no foul. But this story actually is about Steve's resolve - it just shows what can happen if that steely resolve is applied to an evil cause. This is one of the aspects of this story that I find most interesting. Cap has always been the guy with a cause to fight for and who will win on behalf of his beliefs, against any and all odds. But now he's fighting for Hydra and that's dangerous as f*ck.

Also, those memories may be created by Kobik but they're real to Steve at the moment so that's really all that matters.

I'm wondering if this is going to mess up Steve and his life more then SpOck ultimately did Peter's or is it all going to be brushed under the rug as easily once Steve is restored?

Will Spencer even deal with the aftermath or just hand it to the next Cap writer?

I would think that the fallout and aftermath will be very much a part of Spencer's future plans for the title. I'm sure that was all part of his initial pitch for this story and that he'll be steering this ship for awhile.

[sifighter]

With all the books that involve HydraCap and the Red Skull plot, I'm starting to think one is in the works...

Given what seen so far with this series, Sam Wilson, Thunderbolts, and I'd even say Uncanny Avengers I have no doubt it will one day lead to a big crossover event, probably within the next year or two honestly. Not to mention the X-men have to show up eventually as well given that Red Skull has Xavier's brain.

[Kurolegacy]

Well, if it's not for you, you can always hop off. No harm, no foul. But this story actually is about Steve's resolve - it just shows what can happen if that steely resolve is applied to an evil cause. This is one of the aspects of this story that I find most interesting. Cap has always been the guy with a cause to fight for and who will win on behalf of his beliefs, against any and all odds. But now he's fighting for Hydra and that's dangerous as f*ck.

Also, those memories may be created by Kobik but they're real to Steve at the moment so that's really all that matters.

Problem is, just like with Spock, which I did hop off, even if I hop off, I can't escape the fallout of the plot because it's reflected in the other books that Steve appears in. Even if it's not outright stated, you can see that his behavior is off from his appearance in Uncanny Avengers to his guest appearances in places like All-New Wolverine. He's just not the Cap that you know and you know why he's acting like he is.

As for his resolve, while its being applied to evil, it's not the same as his heroic resolve. Sure he's doing all he can to make things go according to plan but that's merely resolve. His heroic resolve is what's truly inspiring about him such as when he talked down to Kang of how he doesn't need any kind of fancy planning, if he sees someone in need, there's no thought to it of the odds of success, he helps them. That is who Cap truly is and what makes him so inspirational and the kind of guy you'd follow to Hell and back. This twisted version of Steve is none of that, he's just sickening and upsetting to watch especially in Cap's anniversary year.

[Prof. Warren]

Problem is, just like with Spock, which I did hop off, even if I hop off, I can't escape the fallout of the plot because it's reflected in the other books that Steve appears in. Even if it's not outright stated, you can see that his behavior is off from his appearance in Uncanny Avengers to his guest appearances in places like All-New Wolverine. He's just not the Cap that you know and you know why he's acting like he is.

As for his resolve, while its being applied to evil, it's not the same as his heroic resolve. Sure he's doing all he can to make things go according to plan but that's merely resolve. His heroic resolve is what's truly inspiring about him such as when he talked down to Kang of how he doesn't need any kind of fancy planning, if he sees someone in need, there's no thought to it of the odds of success, he helps them. That is who Cap truly is and what makes him so inspirational and the kind of guy you'd follow to Hell and back. This twisted version of Steve is none of that, he's just sickening and upsetting to watch especially in Cap's anniversary year.

From Steve's perspective, he's absolutely being heroic. He is as committed to advancing Hydra's goals - which he firmly believes to be for the betterment of man - as he previously has been for democracy. As it's often been said, no villain ever sees themselves as the villain - they're always the hero of their own story. Yes, it's twisted to see the qualities that make Steve such an effective proponent of justice be perverted in this way but it's also riveting.

While every reader has the right to react to a story in whatever way they feel, I don't get the "sickened" and "upset" reaction to either this or SSM. You know, it's a story. Part of serialized fiction is having a character undergo a prolonged crisis and, eventually, emerge. I would think that any reader, of any age, could read a story like this and understand that, ok, this is a journey - it's going to go to some crazy places but, in the end, it's going to be ok.

[Xelossik]

Kurolegacy:

Problem is, just like with Spock, which I did hop off, even if I hop off, I can't escape the fallout of the plot because it's reflected in the other books that Steve appears in.

Heroes are OoC during Civil War 2... Carol and Tony are different than normally. Banner and Clint?

he's just sickening and upsetting to watch especially in Cap's anniversary year.

Story of the Year. Best Marvel story.
of course i believe that he will be good(in the end) and that he will create good Hydra.:P

his behavior is off from his appearance in Uncanny Avengers

He should disband Unity Division because they attacked US Army bases. He couldn't stop them in UA14. What was so bad?

[Kurolegacy]

From Steve's perspective, he's absolutely being heroic. He is as committed to advancing Hydra's goals - which he firmly believes to be for the betterment of man - as he previously has been for democracy. As it's often been said, no villain ever sees themselves as the villain - they're always the hero of their own story. Yes, it's twisted to see the qualities that make Steve such an effective proponent of justice be perverted in this way but it's also riveting.

While every reader has the right to react to a story in whatever way they feel, I don't get the "sickened" and "upset" reaction to either this or SSM. You know, it's a story. Part of serialized fiction is having a character undergo a prolonged crisis and, eventually, emerge. I would think that any reader, of any age, could read a story like this and understand that, ok, this is a journey - it's going to go to some crazy places but, in the end, it's going to be ok.

While you know that it is a story and that in the end everything will be alright, it doesn't mean that you can't be upset by the story. For a character that you enjoy, it can be hard to have to sit through any story where someone you like is basically reduced to the villain of their own story. There can also be a dislike of the way that the character is portrayed in said story. These kinds of things can make it very frustrating as a reader especially when, while you know there will be a light at the end of the tunnel, the questions are when will said light begin to show and just how damaged will the character be by the end of all this.

[Moriarty]

what Spencer is doing to Cap should be a crime. you can say, oh how can you get upset over a story? about a fictional character? oh, i dunno. only because i've been reading Captain America for over twenty years. i've been through the good times and the bad. this is the worst. worse than Cap Wolf and Heroes Reborn.

[jackolover]

I'm unconvinced that a memory stick of somebody's research would have Banner suddenly feel he hasn't got rid of the Hulk. Is that what we are supposed to think? Otherwise, what was the research stick there for? Banner was content he got rid of the gamma from his body, then along comes some guy and says, "sorry you can't be cured. Here's my research, maybe someday you will be"? And this gave Banner nightmares he would force the Hulk to come back? I don't buy it. Banner had all the evidence he was gamma free and comfortable about it. Now Selvig supplies something and Banner has to experiment on himself, and he is having nightmares?

Or was the arrow Banner gave Hawkeye way back in the past? I'm confused. I don't think Banner would make an arrow after he was convinced he was cured, so it must have been after Selvig sent the stick? Where does Banner get all this mistrust he has to make an arrow?

[vikramkhore]

who were guys on terrace with rocket launcer?