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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    He seemed pretty well convinced he was cured in Totally Awesome Hulk, as was pretty much anyone who could've actually said with certainty whether he was cured or not.
    so why didn't he get his arrow back?

  2. #17
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    Given how good the CW2 tie-ins have been for this comic, the Oath one-shot where Hydra-Cap plays a big role in it should be great.

  3. #18
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    so why didn't he get his arrow back?
    Because Bendis ?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    He seemed pretty well convinced he was cured in Totally Awesome Hulk, as was pretty much anyone who could've actually said with certainty whether he was cured or not.
    Yes, but it's not much of a stretch to believe that Bruce wouldn't just leave it at that. He might accept it momentarily but then let doubt get the better of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Stripes View Post
    Given how good the CW2 tie-ins have been for this comic, the Oath one-shot where Hydra-Cap plays a big role in it should be great.
    Yes. I can't wait for The Oath.

    By the way, this week's Sam Wilson: Captain America #13 was just as much as a "Holy Sh*t!" issue as the Steve issue was. Really, really freaking good.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    so why didn't he get his arrow back?
    My understanding was that the arrow thing was in the 8-month timeskip. Besides, it seemed like Bruce was living it up in him little hut with Jen, Amadeus, Rick and Maddie. He could have easily forgotten what happened as a result of these major events. Plus, there were no gamma readings on Bruce and he generally doesn't disagree with science.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Yes, but it's not much of a stretch to believe that Bruce wouldn't just leave it at that. He might accept it momentarily but then let doubt get the better of him.
    With how happy and content he was, so assured of his being cured, I don't think he would, but that's me. He already went to enough lengths to prove he couldn't transform into The Hulk anymore, so I would think that would be enough to satisfy his doubts without having to go any farther to be rid of The Hulk.

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Yes, but it's not much of a stretch to believe that Bruce wouldn't just leave it at that. He might accept it momentarily but then let doubt get the better of him.
    Would kind of make it sad in hindsight because Amadeus did all this work and Bruce just goes ahead and dabbles into gamma hell.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Yes, but it's not much of a stretch to believe that Bruce wouldn't just leave it at that. He might accept it momentarily but then let doubt get the better of him.
    I disagree.

    When previous cures failed, Banner or the Hulk both started deteriorating and being affected physically. During Byrne's run both started dying. During PAD's Heroes Reborn run, they both started dying. During Aaron's run, Banner went literally insane.

    This time, a cure actually worked.

    It also speaks volumes about the lack of understanding of the character when a nightmare can theoretically cause someone who's had it together mentally to become an emotionally fragile cripple who can't function. One who was surrounded by friends and family. People who are on his level who could have helped work on said "cure" if he believed he needed it.

    No, it's just plain inconsiderate writing no matter how you spin it. Banner hasn't been this emotionally shattered teenager type for decades. He's matured, accepted that aspect of his life, merged, made peace, etc.

    Instead we get, "Hey moooooooom, why did you go through my rooooooooooom? I'm not hiding anything! Why don't you trust meeeeeeeeee?" Banner when confronted.

    Banner knew he had tight control over the Hulk and even came to accepting that side of himself, letting himself feel angry, controlling it, using it for good, working with heroes, etc.

    Even Pak's send off for Banner who didn't believe initially, didn't cower, he happily threw himself into situations to test he was cured. Not a shred of fear or terror or anything resembling the imposter shown in CW who was afraid of his own shadow and had no control over himself.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cth View Post
    I disagree.

    When previous cures failed, Banner or the Hulk both started deteriorating and being affected physically. During Byrne's run both started dying. During PAD's Heroes Reborn run, they both started dying. During Aaron's run, Banner went literally insane.

    This time, a cure actually worked.

    It also speaks volumes about the lack of understanding of the character when a nightmare can theoretically cause someone who's had it together mentally to become an emotionally fragile cripple who can't function. One who was surrounded by friends and family. People who are on his level who could have helped work on said "cure" if he believed he needed it.

    No, it's just plain inconsiderate writing no matter how you spin it. Banner hasn't been this emotionally shattered teenager type for decades. He's matured, accepted that aspect of his life, merged, made peace, etc.

    Instead we get, "Hey moooooooom, why did you go through my rooooooooooom? I'm not hiding anything! Why don't you trust meeeeeeeeee?" Banner when confronted.

    Banner knew he had tight control over the Hulk and even came to accepting that side of himself, letting himself feel angry, controlling it, using it for good, working with heroes, etc.

    Even Pak's send off for Banner who didn't believe initially, didn't cower, he happily threw himself into situations to test he was cured. Not a shred of fear or terror or anything resembling the imposter shown in CW who was afraid of his own shadow and had no control over himself.
    Well, Bendis had CWII planned out well before TAH was in motion and Pak was in the know of exactly how that story would play out so Pak could've teed up his story to better match Bendis'. That said, while it's nice to believe that Banner would be at peace with the idea of being cured, it's not impossible to believe that he still had that 1% bit of doubt left in him so I don't think what Pak and what Bendis wrote necessarily conflict - they just show Bruce at different moments and in different mind sets. After all, people can be incredibly up in their attitude one day and feel that everything in their life is super and then be utterly depressed soon after.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    so why didn't he get his arrow back?
    Not to do Bendis' job for him (God knows we readers can come up with better explanations for his writing than he does), but it does seem like a precaution tactic. They exist in the MU and it pays to be genre savvy because the second that you take back the miracle weapon and destroy it will be the second that it's needed.

  11. #26
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    Triniking1234:
    I should pick this up. Has Uncanny Avengers touched upon any Hydra Steve plot points?
    Ulysses had vision that mutants(from Unity Division) will start Inhumans vs X men war.
    Steve didn't try to stop them.
    Only when they attacked inhumans domains and us army he tried to stop them. Alone.
    After short fight he disbanded unit.
    Rogue will still continue their mission(Red Skull)

    We have two possibilities:
    -he was stupid
    -he has good plan(they are free now so they will go and attack Red Skull). They will die or they will be able to beat Red Skull. Both versions are good for Captain America. He can't lose. plus another war will also be good for him.

    You may start this series because Duggan is great(with the exception of first few issues)
    They will have good start in October 19

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ţh€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя¥ Tycon View Post
    My understanding was that the arrow thing was in the 8-month timeskip. Besides, it seemed like Bruce was living it up in him little hut with Jen, Amadeus, Rick and Maddie. He could have easily forgotten what happened as a result of these major events. Plus, there were no gamma readings on Bruce and he generally doesn't disagree with science.
    so which Hulk do the Hand resurrect from the dead?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Well, Bendis had CWII planned out well before TAH was in motion and Pak was in the know of exactly how that story would play out so Pak could've teed up his story to better match Bendis'. That said, while it's nice to believe that Banner would be at peace with the idea of being cured, it's not impossible to believe that he still had that 1% bit of doubt left in him so I don't think what Pak and what Bendis wrote necessarily conflict - they just show Bruce at different moments and in different mind sets. After all, people can be incredibly up in their attitude one day and feel that everything in their life is super and then be utterly depressed soon after.
    BMB never really has anything truly planned out. He just disregards what others puts out. Hence why Banners death is so controversial, you have 5 characters (that includes carol) who already KNEW banner wasn't the hulk no more WELL before CW:2 kicked off.

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member sifighter's Avatar
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    This is just me personally but I actually liked this more then what Bendis did mainly because it actually makes sense and is far more interesting. The idea that Steve as a hydra agent is trying to undermine and weaken the foundation of the Marvel universe by using Ulysses while also being careful as to not set off one of his visions is actually something that feels organic to this plot and to CWII itself. The problem however is that if you aren't reading this series or are unaware of what's going on in it then it doesn't do much for the main story now does it.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    This is just me personally but I actually liked this more then what Bendis did mainly because it actually makes sense and is far more interesting. The idea that Steve as a hydra agent is trying to undermine and weaken the foundation of the Marvel universe by using Ulysses while also being careful as to not set off one of his visions is actually something that feels organic to this plot and to CWII itself. The problem however is that if you aren't reading this series or are unaware of what's going on in it then it doesn't do much for the main story now does it.
    the civil war 2 tie ins have been better than the main thing.

    The reveal about hydracap is clever and make him a major player on the shadows

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