Captain America #5 Reveals Steve Rogers’ Civil War II Secrets [SPOILERS]

[jackolover]

who were guys on terrace with rocket launcer?

We've never seen those Sokovian terrorists before, but they were poised to shoot what looked like the Lincoln Memorial as Steve Rogers learnt of the abilities of Ulysses in CWII #1, and had to abort the mission because Ulysses would have predicted it. It seemed a little self-fulfilling, because, the rocket launching was imminent, so Ulysses would have had to predict it hours or days before, because it was going to happen. That it didn't was purely good timing. It means Ulysses predictions can be turned off if you suddenly change your mind.

[Xelossik]

jackolover :

That it didn't was purely good timing. It means Ulysses predictions can be turned off if you suddenly change your mind.

There is also another possibility.
He simply didn't predict this.
cm1.jpg
As You can read: They are not perfect.

[jackolover]

Yeah, but it doesn't change my thinking on this particular example of Hydra hitting the Memorial. If Ulysses works on likelihoods, Hydra was likely to hit the memorial, so it should have been predicted, and like you say, be identified as an error, when it wasn't carried out. I'm just surprised that Steve revealed Alison Green was unaffiliated with Hydra. That would have made sense, if Steve aborted Alison's attack too, the same way as Steve aborted the Missile attack.

You do know, that the Red Skull could have mind wiped Alison to not carry out the attack, made Alison ditch the evidence, and made Steve forget Alison was one of theirs, don't you? The Skull has all those Xavier powers still, so Skull could even know Steve is lying.

[MindofShadow]

Yeah, but it doesn't change my thinking on this particular example of Hydra hitting the Memorial. If Ulysses works on likelihoods, Hydra was likely to hit the memorial, so it should have been predicted, and like you say, be identified as an error, when it wasn't carried out. I'm just surprised that Steve revealed Alison Green was unaffiliated with Hydra. That would have made sense, if Steve aborted Alison's attack too, the same way as Steve aborted the Missile attack.

You do know, that the Red Skull could have mind wiped Alison to not carry out the attack, made Alison ditch the evidence, and made Steve forget Alison was one of theirs, don't you? The Skull has all those Xavier powers still, so Skull could even know Steve is lying.

I font think hes met skull face to face, so telepathic powers revealing his lies aren't likely

Pkys, didnt skull give sine villain speech about not using his powers earlier?

[Fokken]

So for we few, in the back of the class, who were unable to obtain our copies and are having difficulty translating the images on the opening link:

1) Cap orchestrated Banner's death via planting the seeds to encourage Banner researching/testing gamma, thus inciting Ulysses's vision of Hulk-out. Yes?

2) Cap attempted to have a one-on-one/kidnap/kill Ulysses, but failed because Tony beat him to it?

3) Aaaaand I'll just say it: I'm completely lost on the briefcase thing. Was he involved in that? Was the briefcase legit but got swapped?

Somebody help-- please and thank you.
MindofShadow? Anybody?

[Xelossik]

Fokken :

3) Aaaaand I'll just say it: I'm completely lost on the briefcase thing. Was he involved in that? Was the briefcase legit but got swapped?

No. Hydra wasn't involved.
Ulysses was wrong or Red Skull lied to him.

1 and 2 - yes

Red Skull said to Cap America: "You will support Carol Danvers."
Steve ignored another Red Skull order.

Plus Steve sent Unity Division because he disbanded this unit.:P So thye will die or defeat Red Skull.:P

[Prof. Warren]

what Spencer is doing to Cap should be a crime. you can say, oh how can you get upset over a story? about a fictional character? oh, i dunno. only because i've been reading Captain America for over twenty years.

You've been reading Cap for over twenty years? Well I've been reading for over thirty! The "but I've been reading a long time!" card just doesn't cut it as justification as to why a story shouldn't be told. It doesn't matter how long or short a time someone's been following a book - not every story has to please every reader.

I'm unconvinced that a memory stick of somebody's research would have Banner suddenly feel he hasn't got rid of the Hulk. Is that what we are supposed to think? Otherwise, what was the research stick there for? Banner was content he got rid of the gamma from his body, then along comes some guy and says, "sorry you can't be cured. Here's my research, maybe someday you will be"? And this gave Banner nightmares he would force the Hulk to come back? I don't buy it. Banner had all the evidence he was gamma free and comfortable about it. Now Selvig supplies something and Banner has to experiment on himself, and he is having nightmares?

Or was the arrow Banner gave Hawkeye way back in the past? I'm confused. I don't think Banner would make an arrow after he was convinced he was cured, so it must have been after Selvig sent the stick? Where does Banner get all this mistrust he has to make an arrow?

I think Banner was always going to have a silver of doubt as to whether he was truly, permanently cured. He might accept it to a point but there's no way he was never going to wonder if he could relapse and take steps to keep it from happening. I think Cap was simply feeding into Bruce's insecurities.

So for we few, in the back of the class, who were unable to obtain our copies and are having difficulty translating the images on the opening link:

1) Cap orchestrated Banner's death via planting the seeds to encourage Banner researching/testing gamma, thus inciting Ulysses's vision of Hulk-out. Yes?

2) Cap attempted to have a one-on-one/kidnap/kill Ulysses, but failed because Tony beat him to it?

3) Aaaaand I'll just say it: I'm completely lost on the briefcase thing. Was he involved in that? Was the briefcase legit but got swapped?

Somebody help-- please and thank you.
MindofShadow? Anybody?

1) Yes.

2) Well, Steve didn't fail per se - he just abandoned his own plans because Tony was already doing his work for him.

3) That's actually probably the most intriguing element of this issue - at least as far as its CWII impact as it shows that Ulysses' visions can be completely wrong. Cap knows that there was no mission and that the woman with the briefcase is not a Hydra agent. He double checks with the Red Skull to see if there was some covert action he was unaware of but there wasn't. So this woman is innocent and Ulysses' visions can not be fully trusted - if they can even be trusted at all - at least that's how I'm reading it.

[Cmbmool]

I truly Hope Marvel doesn't sweep this under the rug as it is going to impact Steve Rogers life for a long time coming. I mean it's almost similar to Tony Stark level of stuff that he did in the original Civil War , but much more underhanded.

[DurararaFTW]

Red Skull said to Cap America: "You will support Carol Danvers."
Steve ignored another Red Skull order.
P

Red Skull told him to align himself with Tony start if it looked like Carol was doomed to failure, it was a judgement call left up to Steve, he didn't ignore any order there.

[Moon Ronin]

So for we few, in the back of the class, who were unable to obtain our copies and are having difficulty translating the images on the opening link:

1) Cap orchestrated Banner's death via planting the seeds to encourage Banner researching/testing gamma, thus inciting Ulysses's vision of Hulk-out. Yes?

2) Cap attempted to have a one-on-one/kidnap/kill Ulysses, but failed because Tony beat him to it?

3) Aaaaand I'll just say it: I'm completely lost on the briefcase thing. Was he involved in that? Was the briefcase legit but got swapped?

Somebody help-- please and thank you.
MindofShadow? Anybody?

1) But it would seem that only Clint and Bruce knew about the Hulk killing arrow (not seen any thing that would indicate Steve knew, correct me if I miss some thing my budget doesn't let me get all of the tie-ins), as far as Steve knew it was going to end in Bruce in a Hulk jail, or a total Hulk out and lost of people died. Also if Ulysses visions are processed from the information that he takes in he would have to have some understanding that Steve would have set off the Hulk then, right? That part again doesn't make sense how did he know that Thanos was going to attack, what information did he have to take in to see that? The explanation of Ulysses powers is some what lacking.

2)I don't think Steve would want the Red Skull to get Ulysses, he is plotting against him and it would be counterproductive in handing him over.

3) Your guess is as good as mine on that one, after the Spiderwoman issue where she found Ulysses to to be 100% on point, it would seem odd that he would misread such a thing.

Real question. Could Miles really kill Steve?

[DurararaFTW]

1) But it would seem that only Clint and Bruce knew about the Hulk killing arrow (not seen any thing that would indicate Steve knew, correct me if I miss some thing my budget doesn't let me get all of the tie-ins), as far as Steve knew it was going to end in Bruce in a Hulk jail, or a total Hulk out and lost of people died. Also if Ulysses visions are processed from the information that he takes in he would have to have some understanding that Steve would have set off the Hulk then, right? That part again doesn't make sense how did he know that Thanos was going to attack, what information did he have to take in to see that? The explanation of Ulysses powers is some what lacking.

Subconciously Ulysses knows everything in the universe, down to the inner workings of Celestial politics and the current mood of every person involved in Manhattan traffic at any time, but he has no way of actively accessing that information.

[Moon Ronin]

Subconciously Ulysses knows everything in the universe, down to the inner workings of Celestial politics and the current mood of every person involved in Manhattan traffic at any time, but he has no way of actively accessing that information.

What book is that explained in?

[JasonEsta]

Hmmm..they got him doing some real villainous activities. It's gonna be sad when he becomes himself again and tries to live with his actions.

[MindofShadow]

Real question. Could Miles really kill Steve?

You mean if Miles went all blood lusted?

Yes. He's faster, stronger, has a precog, has multiple other powers (venom blast which took out freaking Blackheart among others, camo, sticks to walls) + webshooters

Only thing steve has on his side is experience and MA skill.

Written fully capable and out for blood, Steve wouldn't know what hit him

[Moon Ronin]

Written fully capable and out for blood, Steve wouldn't know what hit him

Thanks, I didn't read any Marvel Ultimate Universe (616 is hard enough to keep up with) so Miles is almost a brand new person to me.