DC and racially diverse characters. A problem???

[Galerion]

This is my first thread that I create in this section and I know it has the potential to be controversial but I think it's pretty apparent to anyone who pays attention to things.


Right now Cyborg #1 is barely in the top 20 on Comixology in the US region. Let's not even talk about the other regions because it's even worse there.
To put it into perspective



I think it's not wrong to say that this is quite honestly a pretty pathetic showing for a number 1 issue of a Rebirth title that is supposed to feature the companies "flagship" black character.

Blue Beetle #1 just released and people are apparently not pretty happy about it too. It's currently sitting at 5.9 average critic score over at Comicbookroundup.

I know some people may not like it but Marvel is just stomping DC when it comes to this. Black Panther and Spider-Man (Miles Morales) are seemingly just on a level in every regard that DCs offerings simply don't seem to be.

The question is why is that and what could be done to fix it? Is the company really passionate and interested in these or are they just doing them so they don't get certain accusations thrown at them?

I will say one to thing to come to an end. While I am black myself I find myself being mostly drawn to female characters and they don't have to be of color. Most of my favorites aren't in fact. So I don't have the biggest stake in this myself and so don't expect me to be very active in this. I know that they are very many people are who very invested and passionate about this though. Storm and Black Panther are some of the biggest and most active threads on the entire forum and I think that's saying something. The recent thread talking about about Cyborg was quite active too so I think it's only right that people get a thread where they can spell out all the issues as they see them in general and think about ways how they could be fixed.

[Morph Moth]

There are some good articles about the problems with Cyborg.
https://themiddlespaces.wordpress.co...-not-included/
http://greenlantern.co/lets-talk-about-cyborg/

Cyborg was never meant to be a leading character, let alone the most prominent diverse character at DC. He was just meant to add some extra interest to a team of misfit teenage heroes. Because of that, he doesn't have a lot of his own history, he doesn't have a rogues gallery of his own, and not much of a supporting cast that people really care about. He doesn't have many of his own stories, and none that I know of that are actually definitive. He never naturally evolved into a strong leading character like Harley Quinn. DC just thrust him in that position because they didn't want to use certain other black characters. Not that those other characters don't have some of their own issues, but they're not as bad as Cyborg for that spot.

A problem DC has with black characters is that when they do begin to naturally evolve into characters that can hold their own, or when they get a lot of natural traction, DC either doesn't capitalize on it (Static), or actively squashes it as best they can (John Stewart). No sensible company with an interest in galvanizing diverse fans would do something like that, but DC Comics is a white comic book company that caters to a largely aging white readership, and those fans don't tend to be particularly interested in diverse characters. Therefore, the reason why many diverse fans are often disenchanted with the products DC is putting out is because they're not really the market DC is reaching to, and DC doesn't have a strong history of successfully speaking to those people. Case in point: DC apparently thinks it's okay to showcase their most prominent black hero as a clunky machine missing his private parts and a third of his face.

DC doesn't seem to have a lot of interest in actually reaching out to diverse readers. They try to dictate who they think people should like and how they think they should like them, and when the audience pushes back, it seems DC thinks they're wrong and they just stay the course. They're not going to win the diversity battle with that mindset.

[GreenLanternRanger]

On the brightside Green Lanterns is selling well and that contains multiple diverse leads.


As for Cyborg, I think the series is solid so far, hopefully it will pick up in sales eventually.

As for Blue Beetle, I love Jaime and enjoyed the Rebirth issue, but I agree the actual #1 was a fairly weak outing.


Anywho I agree DC could use more books with diverse leads. I would kill to see a new Vixen or Black Lightning ongoing.

[Lady Nightwing]

Cyborg is a frustrating character to be honest. I bought all the DC YOU issues and they were quite boring, still I was prepared to give Rebirth Cyborg a chance, until I learned that DC erased most of what happened from the old run. Like his ability to appear completely human, they erased all the progress Cyborg made so we can have the same old, tired "am I a man or machine?" story again, for what feels like the millionth time.

I don't think it's a race thing with Cyborg though, it's a Titans thing. The majority of the legacy characters made it out of Titans OK, but Starfire, Raven and Beastboy seem destined to be in the Titans forever. Likewise Cyborg will be debating his humanity ad nauseum for the foreseeable future. Or tech support for the Justice League

[FlictsLantern]

Cyborg is a frustrating character to be honest. I bought all the DC YOU issues and they were quite boring, still I was prepared to give Rebirth Cyborg a chance, until I learned that DC erased most of what happened from the old run. Like his ability to appear completely human, they erased all the progress Cyborg made so we can have the same old, tired "am I a man or machine?" story again, for what feels like the millionth time.

I don't think it's a race thing with Cyborg though, it's a Titans thing. The majority of the legacy characters made it out of Titans OK, but Starfire, Raven and Beastboy seem destined to be in the Titans forever. Likewise Cyborg will be debating his humanity ad nauseum for the foreseeable future. Or tech support for the Justice League

Agreed. Seems DC is trying to make Cyborg a main character, but cutting many corners to do so. I never understood why Cyborg replaced Steel on the Justice League, for instance. They got rid of a character that was slowing making his name for another that... is a Titan.
But, like I said elsewhere, I think a Cyborg and Beast Boy title, based on their cartoon relationship, would sell well.
And I agree with what is said above about Static. He is a character with so much potential, I don't understand why he isn't explored more

[Shamrock Holmes]

I must admit I don't read Cyborg mainly because I think it was a mistake trying to shoehorn him on the League with the line-up they've got in the name of "diversity".

Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of increasing diversity in general terms, and if say the Nu52 League had centered on Karen, Dick, Wally, Donna and Garth or something similar, I'd've had no major problem with Cyborg "taking Martian Manhunter's slot" but it didn't make sense to me given that the line-up was otherwise Silver Age "traditional" or at least close to it and it still doesn't.

But if you want a character to be a true "top tier", "flagship" character, then you need to develop them beyond the basic one paragraph description that most debut with, and - unlike John Stewart, Jeff Pierce, Michael Holt, Jaime Reyes, Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz and others, I never never really got the impression that this happening with Vic, even after Nu52's attempt to insert him into the "top tier".

[Johnny]

DC either doesn't want to use minority characters they've been neglecting for years, or doesn't know how to use them, or perhaps both. Unlike many of the minority characters publishers are currently pushing, Cyborg is completely original and isn't carrying anyone else's mantle which in my view is extremely important to modern day representation. Yet DC still doesn't seem to know how to properly handle the guy, which is probably why you don't see his book any higher on the charts.

[Atlanta96]

New Superman is doing well so it's not a complete loss.

But for the most part, yeah. DC struggles with making diverse characters work. They either screw up with promoting those characters (Cyborg, Duke Thomas) or neglect the ones with the most potential (John Stewart, Vixen, Black Lightning). Marvel has some issues with this as well so it's not just DC who has this problem.

[MajorHoy]

But there's also the question of how much is a problem with what DC is doing and how much of it is that the comic book buyers prefer more of the traditional white male old-school characters?
Marvel use to have a terrible track record when it came to comic books starring females, while DC usually did better because they had the iconic Wonder Woman and also female counterparts to those old white guys (Batgirl and Supergirl).
In the two characters specifically mentioned by the OP, Black Panther and the Miles Morales Spider-Man, one has been in a recent Marvel movie, while the second is a black counterpart to an old white guy who's mega-popular. Storm also got mentioned, but a member of the X-Men and former wife of the Black Panther did miserably sales-wise when she got her own title not that long ago.
People may feel DC doesn't do enough / offer enough, but when they've tried in the past, buyers weren't always appearing to give the books a chance. (Batwing, anybody?)

[Frontier]

Civil War II being so high up their is disappointing to me on so many levels...

I do think DC could do a better job promoting minorities or diverse leads in their comics, it's high time Vixen got her own ongoing book, but I think they are doing good in some areas.

Green Lanterns is a pretty diverse book, from its leads to even the supporting cast.

Black Manta is pretty prominently used in Aquaman and is playing a major and interesting role in that book.

They seem to be promoting Wally III as the new Kid Flash fairly well, dedicating quite a bit of screentime to him in the main Flash book to develop him and putting him on the new Teen Titans.

Batwoman is playing a major role in Detective Comics and Cassandra Cain is getting her own arc in that book soon.

Writers are using Duke Thomas in several Batman books and Scott Snyder and the Batman writers seem committed to developing the character.

We have the New Super-Man leading his own book and receiving quite a bit of critical praise.

Emiko has been a pretty major part of Green Arrow, even getting a two-part story dedicated to her very recently. We also have Diggle there.

The new Helena Bertinelli Huntress is a pretty prominent part of the relaunched Birds of Prey.

Superwoman stars not only a female lead but has a very diverse cast including John Henry Irons, his niece, Maggie Sawyer, and eventually Traci 13.

The writer of Wonder Woman has talked about how much it's being developed as a "queer" book in some regards.

I like John Stewart's handling in Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps. so far and am eager to see how that develops.

The Jackson Hyde Aqualad will be joining the Teen Titans soon.

Blue Beetle has been pretty solid so far.

[Lee Stone]

May want to keep an eye on the chart.
That's only sales up to Wednesday.

And Cyborg came out last week, which means it's doing great to still be on the chart.
Each week's comics tend to peak about Sunday/Monday on the Comixology chart and then drop as the next week's comics come out.

Their charting system is dynamic, as it changes daily based on the previous day's sales. And as the week goes on, people start buying the next batch of comics.

At this point, the best thing you can do for determining how successful Cyborg is by comparing the number of reviews it has to other comics from the 21st.
And looking right now, it has 45... compared to Batman's 272.
So, yeah... it's not doing so hot.

I would guess that it probably peaked just outside the top ten over the weekend.

[Jim Kelly]

Really DC should have launched a BLACK LIGHTNING and a VIXEN title. Both of these characters were created to stand on their own. They're not a spin-off from another franchise. Yes, to survive, they were sometimes rolled into super-teams, but they're the kind of characters that a whole franchise could be built around.

[SiegePerilous02]

Cyborg just doesn't have it in him to be a solo franchise lead character. He was created specifically for a team book environment, and he was probably one of (if not the) best written characters in the book. But now they just rehash all those great stories in less interesting ways and all his important relationship dynamics aren't canon anymore. Does Sarah Simms even exist anymore? I like the character a lot, but I think this route is a dead end.

Like Jim Kelly said, Vixen and Black Lightning would be better characters to base a solo book around. They aren't as entrenched in any iconic team like the Titans, so there's more room for experimentation.

[Desean101101]

Really DC should have launched a BLACK LIGHTNING and a VIXEN title. Both of these characters were created to stand on their own. They're not a spin-off from another franchise. Yes, to survive, they were sometimes rolled into super-teams, but they're the kind of characters that a whole franchise could be built around.

They Tried a Black Lightning and Blue devil book back when the new 52 started and it Bombed even though it was damn amazing!!!! Look it up and read it! I think they are going to do a Black Lightning book in the next wave of book come January. Vixen I want to see again because a Supermodel superhero? I would love to see some of the fashion industry highlighted in the book with some nuance because that is a core part of her character.

[America]

As a longtime Marvel fan and refugee to DC comics because of the exact crap you're advocating for DC to do, my response is simple.

No.

No no no no.

There's a reason DC is annihilating Marvel sales wise right now and its because whereas DC has spent time improving it's universe with Rebirth, hiring good writers, and telling good stories-Marvel has instead invested similar effort into shock value titles and exploiting minority groups for sales, along with trying to pick up good will with clowns like Stephen Colbert and Rosie O' Donnell.

Marvel is a case study on what not to do in the comic book industry right now and they deserve their wallowing.

DC has loads of terrific minority characters that they are trying to organically build up rather than the Marvel approach of urinating all over the characters people have loved for decades and alienating their readership in the process.

Oh and that black panther book is boring. Sooooo boring (albeit very well rendered)