30 years later, thoughts on John Byrne's THE MAN OF STEEL miniseries

[sunofdarkchild]

No, I'll tell YOU what: you can go to his house, ring his doorbell, and ask him directly. Please record and post the encounter on youtube.

Dark Knight Returns:


Byrne's Superman run, shortly afterwards:

That later scene isn't from Byrne's Superman. It's from issue 3 of the Legends crossover mini-series. Byrne penciled the series, but it was written by John Ostrander and Len Wein.

[Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L.]

Interesting responses on this thread so far!

This becomes doubly true if the tale I've heard (but never confirmed for myself) is true. That John Byrne loved Frank Miller's THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS (and its ... "take" on Superman, published earlier in the same year) so much that he changed some of his initial writing of THE MAN OF STEEL to better match Miller's Superman. And that ultimately, Byrne had it in his mind that his new young Superman could or would eventually become Miller's government stooge Superman. Excuse me while I puke.

IF (and please if anyone can decisively confirm or deny this, please do) that tale is true, then THE MAN OF STEEL and the entire Iron Age Superman (1986-1999) era is poisoned for me in hindsight.

I'm pretty sure I've read that Byrne didn't like Superman's portrayal in DKR but unfortunately I read that more than a decade ago and I can't provide a link. Anyway, a lot of DC talent tried to use elements of DKR in the main continuity, not just Byrne, like with Oliver Queen potentially losing his arm because of Superman or the Superman-Reagan scene that wasn't written by Byrne but Ostrander (or Wein?). That's because DKR was both popular and critically acclaimed (and rightly so as far as I'm concerned) but it worked because it was its own thing and bringing its vision to the main DCU (and in a half assed way I might add) was not a good idea.

[Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L.]

I am an immigrant to the US. I never had problem with it. I have had friends who are first generation and it remind me of the attitude they had about their parents' heritage. They appreciate it but were a product of their country not their parents' is how they view themselves.

The thing is though that Superman isn't "the immigrant next door". He doesn't just come from Ireland, for example, he comes from a world that doesn't exist anymore, something that would normally make him want to know and honor as much of that world as possible. At least I know I would. Also his superpowers are a constant reminder that he is not like the other people around him. I don't use a secret identity to live a normal life, he does because he knows he is different.

To be clear I'm not a fan of either extreme, neither the "just a farmboy from Kansas" nor the mopey alien who can't relate to us normal folks. But I don't think that Byrne using adopted kids and himself as an immigrant justifies his take on Superman. Superman is not a real life immigrant, he is a "science fiction immigrant" and his unique situation is what makes interesting as a character.

[Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L.]

I always like the "born on Earth" thing because it added to Clark's cover. It let Clark be passed off as the Kents' natural son. No officials looking over the adoption who might wonder about this "unusual" kid. Nothing to single Clark out as someone whose parentage was unknown when people were looking for Superman.

I think that Clark's cover is so "thin" that making it more realistic doesn't matter to me. Also the idea that the Kents pull off the "birthed by Martha Kent" gambit is based on the fact that the blizzard of the century hit Smallville at the right time which doesn't sound realistic either. But more important I find the moment that Lara and Jor El hold their son in their arms for the last time so powerful that I'd rather it wasn't missing from the origin.

[llozymandias]

In the mini-series, when Lex declares war on Superman, "you will know who is killing you. All of Metropolis will know. But nobody will be able to prove it.". Or words to that effect. That would have been interesting; more interesting than what we got. It implied that while everyone would know that Lex is Superman's archenemy, & is responsible for many of attempts to destroy him; Lex conducts his war on Superman in such a way that nobody is ever able to prove it in a court of law.

[paurru]

The old 1980s Superman "Man of Steel" comic along with the first three Christopher Reeve movies is what got me into reading Superman back then

[Doctor Know]

I personally liked Bryne's run, but all of my friends that read the trades of his run found it weak. The common complaint was that Bryne wrote a Superman who was bad at being Superman. Seems to be a similar complaint reading this thread.

[Username taken]

I was a Superman nut but i'm old enough to remember that Superman and the entire "Super" franchise had reaaaaaaaallllyy entered a creative rut. The books had become completely state and a whole lot of people just didn't care about the Superman comics.

Byrne's Man of Steel got a LOT of people into reading Superman (mostly Marvel folk because Byrne was a superstar back then) and the change in art (which was fantastic) and focused direction was breath of fresh air for the character.

Needless to say, i loved Man of Steel and Byrne's re-boot however he took away too many core elements of the mythos that needed to be added back years later.

[Kuwagaton]

I wasn't reading back then, but thank you. I did spend the summer of 2013 reading 1983-1986 stuff, and while there were definitely all-time gems produced, the overall line was stale, a nightmare for the purpose of competing with Marvel and the popular indie stuff of the time. I think of that whenever I see people lament about what was lost.

Not to say anything needed to be thrown out (even Turtle Boy came back, after all) but clearly a change was needed. MoS isn't my favorite Superman comic even of 1986, but it changed things.

The thing is though that Superman isn't "the immigrant next door". He doesn't just come from Ireland, for example, he comes from a world that doesn't exist anymore, something that would normally make him want to know and honor as much of that world as possible. At least I know I would. Also his superpowers are a constant reminder that he is not like the other people around him. I don't use a secret identity to live a normal life, he does because he knows he is different.

But Krypton was dead, he had no memory and little else to go on. He can only be so reverent without being a phony.

[Death&Return of Superman]

Just read the first issues of The Man of Steel, and oh boy is it kind of a boring mess. It also sometimes comes off as funny, but I'm not really sure it's meant to be funny. So, the biggest issue of the first issue is nothing really happens at all. It's like 30 pages or something, and these don't do much other than cover was the very first issue of Superman covers in 2. So we start off on Krypton, the green inferno, and it's right here in the opening of the comic that you can tell things are going to be bad. It starts off with Jor-El coming home two these two robot we thankfully will not be seeing the rest of the issue, which makes one wonder why they weren't cut to begin with - maybe they needed more pages, I don't know, anyways Jor-El talks to the robots and everything talked about here will be gone over again when he later talks to his wife. Jor-El exits page, and the robots talk about how these emotionless people are distressed lately, but the robot doesn't know why, even though we'll later find out the problems plaguing by Krypton are public knowledge known by all. So Jor-El and Lara start talking, and it's at this moment I really start wonder why exactly emotionless was the angle they went with for the Kryptonians, because they sure aren't written as emotionless. Kryptonians being emotionless is only something you would know of in this issue because they themselves say it, but the dialogue is so overwrought and melodramatic it makes one wonder exactly what people with emotions would read like; I only wish the art, the staging of the characters, had been a melodramatic as the written words, it would have at least made all these pages of talking more fun to read. Although it is pretty great when Lara sees a human man on Earth and freaks out in a totally not emotionless way of a man without a shirt and touching dirt.

The rest of the comic is Earth stuff over a two different periods of his life, one of which has flashbacks. These parts have a weird flow to them. Like on Earth we start with high school Clark Kent p, he's playing football, and he's better than everyone. Clearly we know he's got some powers, how much? We don't know. His father "Pa" decides now is time to tell Clark he's an alien by showing him the ship he came in. He does this my having Superman left something heavy, and at this moment, at least I was getting the idea that Clark himself was surprised he could left this thing all along. If that's that what John Byrne was going for in that moment it makes no sense, because as we will find out later Superman has being doing all kinds of things before this moment. So Pa tell Clark (and us) the story of how they found Clark, we get a panel that's very much like Brett looking at the egg in Alien, and then Pa is just basically talking to us because now he's telling Clark a bunch of stuff he already knows. In fact, this might be the best part of the comic, because when Pa is done telling us the story of Superman the Boy Years, Clark is like: Yeah, ok, but why did your story about the spaceship have a B story about all the things I already know about? Again, these was all don't better in the first issue of Superman, and it was done in two pages.

The third part takes place sometime late, I'm not sure how much later, but Clark has been in Metropolis for three years. This might be the dumbest part of the comic. Pa Kent finds his son looking Supermorose in the living room. They wanted a peice of me. Clark Kent then relates the story of why he's sitting in the dark in the most purple prose he can. Prose so purple that this time I actually wish we got to see Clark telling this story as opposed to seeing the actual events, I wanted to see the expressions Clark would be making while saying these words in that moodily lit room while sitting in at chair; this could have been Batman Odyssey levels of awesome. Anyways it seems like this really affect him, he had to go sit on a damn mountain in Tibet, but than the mood shifts in the reveal of the costume, and it almost seems like Superman's previous moodiness was a put on for the reader - like when two people that know each other really well pretent to act some way for effect around some third party that's around.

It's actually really hard to believe this first issue got anyone excited for more Superman when nothing at all happens over so many pages. The art is nice, like its drawn well, but everything seems to be presented in an extremely boring way. It's not even really a well written comic either, which is kind of a problem when all you've really got in this first issue are people in rooms talking to each other. The one big action scene in the whole comic is so uninteresting in the way it's presented I would have rather seen was could have been the more interesting action of seeing Superman tell that story.

[Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L.]

But Krypton was dead, he had no memory and little else to go on. He can only be so reverent without being a phony.

He did have memories of Krypton pre-crisis because of super-memory I think. But he also had extensive memories after Byrne's MOS #6 and I quote: "All that world's history is now within my memory, placed there by the last act of my real father. I can quote from the great literature of Krypton's ancient culture. I can summon before my mind's eye the great works of art. I can speak the seven languages of Krypton's proudest epochs. I can sing ballads of its heroes. I know the name of Krypton's God, and all the prayers that praised his name. All this is the last gift of Jor-El to his son. And all of it is ultimately meaningless."

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to be super-reverent about it, but he is not just like any other immigrant in the USA. I mean Byrne brought himself as an example of someone who was born in England and now lives in USA, really not the same.

[manofsteel1979]

Just read the first issues of The Man of Steel, and oh boy is it kind of a boring mess. It also sometimes comes off as funny, but I'm not really sure it's meant to be funny. So, the biggest issue of the first issue is nothing really happens at all. It's like 30 pages or something, and these don't do much other than cover was the very first issue of Superman covers in 2. So we start off on Krypton, the green inferno, and it's right here in the opening of the comic that you can tell things are going to be bad. It starts off with Jor-El coming home two these two robot we thankfully will not be seeing the rest of the issue, which makes one wonder why they weren't cut to begin with - maybe they needed more pages, I don't know, anyways Jor-El talks to the robots and everything talked about here will be gone over again when he later talks to his wife. Jor-El exits page, and the robots talk about how these emotionless people are distressed lately, but the robot doesn't know why, even though we'll later find out the problems plaguing by Krypton are public knowledge known by all. So Jor-El and Lara start talking, and it's at this moment I really start wonder why exactly emotionless was the angle they went with for the Kryptonians, because they sure aren't written as emotionless. Kryptonians being emotionless is only something you would know of in this issue because they themselves say it, but the dialogue is so overwrought and melodramatic it makes one wonder exactly what people with emotions would read like; I only wish the art, the staging of the characters, had been a melodramatic as the written words, it would have at least made all these pages of talking more fun to read. Although it is pretty great when Lara sees a human man on Earth and freaks out in a totally not emotionless way of a man without a shirt and touching dirt.

The rest of the comic is Earth stuff over a two different periods of his life, one of which has flashbacks. These parts have a weird flow to them. Like on Earth we start with high school Clark Kent p, he's playing football, and he's better than everyone. Clearly we know he's got some powers, how much? We don't know. His father "Pa" decides now is time to tell Clark he's an alien by showing him the ship he came in. He does this my having Superman left something heavy, and at this moment, at least I was getting the idea that Clark himself was surprised he could left this thing all along. If that's that what John Byrne was going for in that moment it makes no sense, because as we will find out later Superman has being doing all kinds of things before this moment. So Pa tell Clark (and us) the story of how they found Clark, we get a panel that's very much like Brett looking at the egg in Alien, and then Pa is just basically talking to us because now he's telling Clark a bunch of stuff he already knows. In fact, this might be the best part of the comic, because when Pa is done telling us the story of Superman the Boy Years, Clark is like: Yeah, ok, but why did your story about the spaceship have a B story about all the things I already know about? Again, these was all don't better in the first issue of Superman, and it was done in two pages.

The third part takes place sometime late, I'm not sure how much later, but Clark has been in Metropolis for three years. This might be the dumbest part of the comic. Pa Kent finds his son looking Supermorose in the living room. They wanted a peice of me. Clark Kent then relates the story of why he's sitting in the dark in the most purple prose he can. Prose so purple that this time I actually wish we got to see Clark telling this story as opposed to seeing the actual events, I wanted to see the expressions Clark would be making while saying these words in that moodily lit room while sitting in at chair; this could have been Batman Odyssey levels of awesome. Anyways it seems like this really affect him, he had to go sit on a damn mountain in Tibet, but than the mood shifts in the reveal of the costume, and it almost seems like Superman's previous moodiness was a put on for the reader - like when two people that know each other really well pretent to act some way for effect around some third party that's around.

It's actually really hard to believe this first issue got anyone excited for more Superman when nothing at all happens over so many pages. The art is nice, like its drawn well, but everything seems to be presented in an extremely boring way. It's not even really a well written comic either, which is kind of a problem when all you've really got in this first issue are people in rooms talking to each other. The one big action scene in the whole comic is so uninteresting in the way it's presented I would have rather seen was could have been the more interesting action of seeing Superman tell that story.

I think it was a case of " you had to be there". I too found that first issue off putting when I sat down to read the whole thing in 1996. As a Superman reader of like,5 years at the time,i was told by fellow Superman readers how great it was...and outside of the art and a few moments here and there,i just found it...odd. He almost didn't feel like the Superman I had been reading.

However, in 1986 I think the shear novelty of it being a new take on Superman after decades of pretty much the same take drove it. For its time,im sure it was noteworthy and felt new and fresh. If I was reading then,and " discovered" SUPERMAN through MOS,perhaps I would be in the " it was great" camp.

[Death&Return of Superman]

I think it was a case of " you had to be there". I too found that first issue off putting when I sat down to read the whole thing in 1996. As a Superman reader of like,5 years at the time,i was told by fellow Superman readers how great it was...and outside of the art and a few moments here and there,i just found it...odd. He almost didn't feel like the Superman I had been reading.

However, in 1986 I think the shear novelty of it being a new take on Superman after decades of pretty much the same take drove it. For its time,im sure it was noteworthy and felt new and fresh. If I was reading then,and " discovered" SUPERMAN through MOS,perhaps I would be in the " it was great" camp.

It doesn't even really seem like a new take. That first issue just seems like it's trying to do the '78 movie as a comic, but drags stuff out and changing the look of the emotionless Kryptonians and their sterile world to something less emotionless and sterile looking.

[Kuwagaton]

That's a pretty Kryptonian way of looking at it, haha.

He did have memories of Krypton pre-crisis because of super-memory I think. But he also had extensive memories after Byrne's MOS #6 and I quote: "All that world's history is now within my memory, placed there by the last act of my real father. I can quote from the great literature of Krypton's ancient culture. I can summon before my mind's eye the great works of art. I can speak the seven languages of Krypton's proudest epochs. I can sing ballads of its heroes. I know the name of Krypton's God, and all the prayers that praised his name. All this is the last gift of Jor-El to his son. And all of it is ultimately meaningless."

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to be super-reverent about it, but he is not just like any other immigrant in the USA. I mean Byrne brought himself as an example of someone who was born in England and now lives in USA, really not the same.

It's an entirely different scenario given that it relies so much on the make believe, but to me:

He discovers all of that at 28. I'm about a month away from 29, and if today you told me I spent the first entire week of my existence in Lebanon, I wouldn't consider myself Lebanese at all. No matter how much I knew about it, unless I just happened to really dig the country and its culture. Even then it probably would be pretty difficult to immerse. And on top of that, Lebanon still exists. I'd be extremely sad if it didn't (whether or not I was from there) but my goal would only to be to preserve its culture if we're given the fact that Lebanon is a part of my current home planet. I wouldn't consider myself the last son, though, because I've not been that guy ever before.

[sunofdarkchild]

If Clark were to feel more Kryptonian than human then he'd be like Worf. The Eradicator/Krypton Man storyline basically showed what would happen in the post-crisis world

Honestly, though I still really like the story, For the Man who has Everything bothers me because it shows Kal having no place for the Kents, Lois, Jimmy, Lana, the Planet, ect. in his perfect world. I just kind of ignore that part of the story, because it comes off as Kal not caring about his friends and family or adopted home planet. If given the choice I'd rather him show less appreciation for the place and people he at best hasn't seen since he was a baby than have him show less appreciation for the places and characters that we come to care about because of their regular appearance in the comics.