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  1. #2671
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    Finally finished the show, and I think it definitely gets overhated. Sure, it's no Spider-Man TAS or Spectacular Spider-Man but I'd say it's far better than the likes of Ultimate Spider-Man. Although I really disliked the show's version of Doc Ock.
    I think my problems with Ock on the show is:

    1) Spider-Man never beats him without help.

    2) He's seemingly only a teenage/Doogie Howser type so that Superior isn't a grown man in a teenager's body because otherwise it doesn't matter at all to the character.

    3) He only fights Spider-Man, like, twice so it's hard to take him seriously as a major villain.

    4) They didn't emphasize how much he was a bad Spider-Man by the end of the Superior arc to necessitate Peter coming back. Now part of that was probably so he'd remain sympathetic when he turns good, but still.

    5) The brief period where he was Peter's guy in the chair and was basically handing Peter the solution to his problems.

    6) Peter still kind of forgives him a little too easily for messing up his life and reputation.

  2. #2672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think my problems with Ock on the show is:

    1) Spider-Man never beats him without help.

    2) He's seemingly only a teenage/Doogie Howser type so that Superior isn't a grown man in a teenager's body because otherwise it doesn't matter at all to the character.

    3) He only fights Spider-Man, like, twice so it's hard to take him seriously as a major villain.

    4) They didn't emphasize how much he was a bad Spider-Man by the end of the Superior arc to necessitate Peter coming back. Now part of that was probably so he'd remain sympathetic when he turns good, but still.

    5) The brief period where he was Peter's guy in the chair and was basically handing Peter the solution to his problems.

    6) Peter still kind of forgives him a little too easily for messing up his life and reputation.
    2. I don't get the issue here. I guess you want it to be creepier to help emphasize how wrong it is, but nothing is lost by making Doc a kid in this scenario.

    3. That's the difference between a "Big Bad" and a MOTW for me. The fact that he was behind most of the incidents in Season 2 is what makes him a main antagonist rather than how many times he literally fights Peter.

    6. I think the excuse is that since Peter was in his mind, it made Peter innately sympathetic to him. Otherwise, I agree.

  3. #2673
    Incredible Member Unspeakable Evil's Avatar
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    The show was only ever just OK. It had some high parts but at times I feel like it rushed through stuff

  4. #2674
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    2. I don't get the issue here. I guess you want it to be creepier to help emphasize how wrong it is, but nothing is lost by making Doc a kid in this scenario.
    My issue is more just how irrelevant it seems to his character otherwise.
    3. That's the difference between a "Big Bad" and a MOTW for me. The fact that he was behind most of the incidents in Season 2 is what makes him a main antagonist rather than how many times he literally fights Peter.
    Well, yeah, in season 2 they had to basically push him hard as a villain to make him feel more significant despite how little he had actually done in the history of the show up to that point.
    6. I think the excuse is that since Peter was in his mind, it made Peter innately sympathetic to him. Otherwise, I agree.
    True. We did get those flashbacks where Peter got to see how Otto grew up and how that impacted him (which I don't think was actually in the comic).

  5. #2675
    World's Greatest Hero blackspidey2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think my problems with Ock on the show is:

    1) Spider-Man never beats him without help.

    2) He's seemingly only a teenage/Doogie Howser type so that Superior isn't a grown man in a teenager's body because otherwise it doesn't matter at all to the character.

    3) He only fights Spider-Man, like, twice so it's hard to take him seriously as a major villain.

    4) They didn't emphasize how much he was a bad Spider-Man by the end of the Superior arc to necessitate Peter coming back. Now part of that was probably so he'd remain sympathetic when he turns good, but still.

    5) The brief period where he was Peter's guy in the chair and was basically handing Peter the solution to his problems.

    6) Peter still kind of forgives him a little too easily for messing up his life and reputation.
    I 100% agree with everything you mentioned, especially 1, 4 and 5. His entire character seemed almost like an evil Mary Sue. My other issue with him (might be a little bit unfair but whatever) was the voice acting... like no disrespect but Ock's voice was so grating and annoying. Towards the end of S2 I started getting a bit annoyed whenever I heard Ock's voice at all, let alone when he actually did something annoying. I think Ock was easily my least favorite part of the show - him and Anya were probably the 2 characters I ended up disliking.
    "Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going's tough - when there seems to be no chance - that's when it counts!" - Spider-Man

  6. #2676
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    I 100% agree with everything you mentioned, especially 1, 4 and 5. His entire character seemed almost like an evil Mary Sue. My other issue with him (might be a little bit unfair but whatever) was the voice acting... like no disrespect but Ock's voice was so grating and annoying. Towards the end of S2 I started getting a bit annoyed whenever I heard Ock's voice at all, let alone when he actually did something annoying. I think Ock was easily my least favorite part of the show - him and Anya were probably the 2 characters I ended up disliking.
    Yeah, he did feel like a villain sue. They used every other villain sparingly.

  7. #2677
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Is this series still a thing? If so, I'm legit shocked. I thought it went off the air years ago.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  8. #2678
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Is this series still a thing? If so, I'm legit shocked. I thought it went off the air years ago.
    No, it's over. It ended last year.

  9. #2679
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Yeah, only ran for three seasons and season 3 (Maximum Venom) was shorter than the previous ones.
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  10. #2680
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Season 3 had "6" episodes, but each episode was really a two parter that aired together, so it's more like 12 episodes. (Still shorter than seasons 1 & 2.)

  11. #2681
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    Finally finished the show, and I think it definitely gets overhated. Sure, it's no Spider-Man TAS or Spectacular Spider-Man but I'd say it's far better than the likes of Ultimate Spider-Man. Although I really disliked the show's version of Doc Ock.
    I still need to finish S3 but I don't like suffering. I didn't hate Doc Ock but he's kid-friendly as hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think my problems with Ock on the show is:

    1) Spider-Man never beats him without help.

    2) He's seemingly only a teenage/Doogie Howser type so that Superior isn't a grown man in a teenager's body because otherwise it doesn't matter at all to the character.

    3) He only fights Spider-Man, like, twice so it's hard to take him seriously as a major villain.

    4) They didn't emphasize how much he was a bad Spider-Man by the end of the Superior arc to necessitate Peter coming back. Now part of that was probably so he'd remain sympathetic when he turns good, but still.

    5) The brief period where he was Peter's guy in the chair and was basically handing Peter the solution to his problems.

    6) Peter still kind of forgives him a little too easily for messing up his life and reputation.
    Like I know he barely fought him and he only turned evil cause of Norman but there's still the manipulation of Max and the whole school, almost killing 3 students (plus Peter) and the body possession crap.
    "Cable was right!"

  12. #2682
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    One aspect I do like about this Otto is that it skipped the whole "brain damage made him evil" bit that so many adaptations do (until USM and the 2018 game). Some versions (like Spectacular) argue that he had megalomaniacal tendencies even before then, but I was never comfortable with the accident also making automatically villainous. Otto is manipulated against Max and the Spiders, sure, but the accident didn't change who he was. He's still arrogant and bitter, and those traits were intensified to the point he became a supervillain.

  13. #2683
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I do find it kind of hilarious how so many of the series' major conflicts Max Modell is partially responsible for.

    Like, the show treats him as this nice, good, guy and this paragon of positive science but his personal decisions ends up creating or driving all of Peter's major villains in one way or another.

    Heck, he was literally the final boss! His villain name was in the title the whole time!

  14. #2684
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    I just think it's funny that the show went out of its way to not use Mary Jane beyond the "Peter, you just missed her" like the Lee/Ditko days, only to jam her into the last few episodes and pair Peter up with her at the end.

    (At least their actual interactions are handled pretty well. But that relationship definitely needed more time in the spotlight.)

  15. #2685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I do find it kind of hilarious how so many of the series' major conflicts Max Modell is partially responsible for.

    Like, the show treats him as this nice, good, guy and this paragon of positive science but his personal decisions ends up creating or driving all of Peter's major villains in one way or another.

    Heck, he was literally the final boss! His villain name was in the title the whole time!
    That's pretty much how scientists are treated in fiction.

    They're constantly saving the world from problems that they themselves caused in the first place.

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