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  1. #16
    Veteran Member codystarbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    We hardly even see it in the comics! So many times it's happens off panel or we just get one or two panels of him contemplatively looking at clues.
    Again, you don't have many contemporary comic writers who are as adept at mystery stories. There are some (Brubaker and Rucka, for a start); but not as many as there used to be (actively). Guys like Denny O'Neil, Len Wein, Steve Engelhart, Mike Barr, Archie Goodwin, Frank Robbins, and Matt Wagner knew how to do that kind of stuff and did it well.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    The funny thing is that the Adam West Batman is easily the best detective of all of the live-action Bats.
    Yah, but he didn't exactly have a tough time of it. Most of the solutions to the crimes were painfully easy, he just painstakingly went through the steps to "solve" them rather than just stating the obvious. I mean how many times is a riddle left at the crime scene and its NOT the Riddler!?!?
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  3. #18
    Mighty Member Da Boat's Avatar
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    Look at where Warner has gravitated to for their movies so far, they go for one of the less subtle, most brain-dead in-you-face testosterone director around aside of Michael Bay in Zack Snyder where what's important is that an image look instead of having meanings(and if there was a comic where images should let to clues it's Watchmen and they hired him for that too).

    Even Nolan who is supposed to be a cerebral director - and he made an interesting detective movie with Al Pacino called Insomnia - when it comes to Batman he chose to go in another direction.

    Hollywood right now is afraid of the subtle stories and esp. for their action movies, they go all out destruction porn and so much action that you're left with nothing else. Ask questions later whereas detective stories are about asking questions first. Even the praised Civil War, the movie was concentrated toward action and not a lot on plot.

    I still think a good Batman mystery detective movie would work if someone applied himself.

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Batman does detective work in the '89 movie, both in terms of Joker's identity and investigative work on his big lethal plans.

    He does detective work in Returns, both looking into past crime waves and Penguin's possible history.

    He's using evidence and records to solve crimes, to curtail future crimes and, if not make convictions, make sure he knows the how and the why and the who before he brings the baddies down.
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  5. #20
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Look at the success of C.S.I. X-Files and Sherlock. Mysteries are generating money and they cost a lot less than your standard 150 minutes of disaster porn. Fingers crossed for Ben Affleck giving us a Batflick with a little more meat on the story bones. Someone should send him a copy of the Gotham Central Omnibus. Don't look at me, I don't have the bucks

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Look at the success of C.S.I. X-Files and Sherlock. Mysteries are generating money and they cost a lot less than your standard 150 minutes of disaster porn. Fingers crossed for Ben Affleck giving us a Batflick with a little more meat on the story bones. Someone should send him a copy of the Gotham Central Omnibus. Don't look at me, I don't have the bucks
    He can afford his own comics.

    He should buy me the Gotham Central omnibus. I'm more deserving.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    The funny thing is that the Adam West Batman is easily the best detective of all of the live-action Bats.
    as ZeroBG82 points out: West-Batman also fits most squarely into the 'detective' tradition. he's got a sidekick that he explains everything to. he takes the time to break down the clues and suggest where they should proceed.

    as an aside: Batman as 'existential loner' is a pretty recent trend. (like, the last 40 years) for a very long time he always had Robin at his side to help him out, or to explain things to. only SOME of Batman's core audience wants him to be the existential loner.

    writing a solid mystery is tough. and it's even tougher when you, as a writer, are determined to outsmart the audience all the time by withholding evidence, planting too many red herrings, or intentionally making it impossible for the audience to guess correctly. I remember Loeb did this with "the Long Halloween" and "Dark Victory". they're okay stories... but they're bad mysteries, in my opinion. (actually, I think Dark Victory wasn't even a very good story)

    as a kid, I really liked the detective aspects of Batman. I read about forensics, detective work, and thought the idea of him solving mysteries was pretty cool. but, it's true, he doesn't really do that anymore. he seems to spend more time fighting super-villains. and when you've got clearly established antagonists who's motivation and methods are well known... there's not much mystery to it.

    one nice thing about emphasizing the detective aspects of Batman is that you can use a large variety of new/one-time characters for the sake of a story.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Boat View Post
    Look at where Warner has gravitated to for their movies so far, they go for one of the less subtle, most brain-dead in-you-face testosterone director around aside of Michael Bay in Zack Snyder where what's important is that an image look instead of having meanings(and if there was a comic where images should let to clues it's Watchmen and they hired him for that too).

    Even Nolan who is supposed to be a cerebral director - and he made an interesting detective movie with Al Pacino called Insomnia - when it comes to Batman he chose to go in another direction.

    Hollywood right now is afraid of the subtle stories and esp. for their action movies, they go all out destruction porn and so much action that you're left with nothing else. Ask questions later whereas detective stories are about asking questions first. Even the praised Civil War, the movie was concentrated toward action and not a lot on plot.

    I still think a good Batman mystery detective movie would work if someone applied himself.
    well, it's not like 'subtle' and blockbusters go together very often. Hollywood isn't so much AFRAID of subtle movies-- it's that they aren't going to market them in the same way that they market oscar-bait and blockbusters. oh, and as much as I love the idea of Batman, it isn't exactly a subtle concept!

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    well, it's not like 'subtle' and blockbusters go together very often. Hollywood isn't so much AFRAID of subtle movies-- it's that they aren't going to market them in the same way that they market oscar-bait and blockbusters. oh, and as much as I love the idea of Batman, it isn't exactly a subtle concept!
    Since movies have no problems copying comics it would be nice to insert Batman into a mystery, maybe a horror movie, too. Just to play with expectations or gain new audiences. That's probably why TDK worked so well with the general audience it took some notes from Heat (=insert genre). Let the next comic book movie do the same. If it doesn't work for Batman because of the big name... I'll settle The Question or Detective Chimp but in a perfect world they would at least try making a Batmystery.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    I think he does a fair amount of detective work, but only as Bruce Wayne. Put on the cowl and it's all about fighting and gadgets. Would be nice to see him on a crime scene every so often and test the mud with a chemical compound he pulls from his utility belt. Would also be nice to see him not rely on tech to do detective work (reconstructing a shattered bullet to pull fingerprints) but rather rely on his own mind. The more tech you bring to Batman, the less Batman remains.

    In comics and games especially, most of the detective work (research) is left to Alfred, which I find extremely odd and one of the reasons I don't read the comics anymore.
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  11. #26

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    It would be interesting to see them do a Batman anthology film, than you could basically just focus on any one type of genre style you wanted pre story. Here's your crazy kung-fu martal arts Batman story, here's your detective mystery Batman story, here's your weird horror movie Batman (could have him going after Man-Bat or something), here's a story about Bruce Wayne doing Bruce Wayne shit. Bruce Wayne bit could play like a comedy or something, watch as Bruce manipulating people for some reason while putting on a foppish persona—or whatever. An anthology story is probably about the only way you'd get a Batman movie doing that kind of stuff in any kind of major way that actually felt big. If they thought they had to focus a whole movie on something that fell outside of what they normally do in the movies, (and comics) than I don't think it would happen.

  12. #27
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    Action sells more than detective mystery.

    Batman did try to figure out how joker is poisoning the people in Tim Burton's first film. a combo of three different cosmetic products?

  13. #28
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubou View Post
    Action sells more than detective mystery.

    Batman did try to figure out how joker is poisoning the people in Tim Burton's first film. a combo of three different cosmetic products?
    He also researched and investigated Joker's history, MO, and how it all tied in with other crimes and future plans. He was very much a detective in that one and Returns. And, they at least give lip service to it in Forever. And, in Forever, he's willing to consult other experts, which really, is kind of a big thing for movie-Batman, even though the "expert" is kind of dumb (it's a kids movie; what do you expect?).

    I think, when this most often comes up, some people don't really want a detective, they want Sherlock Holmes, standing over a footprint and extrapolating the gross national income of India. And, for him to do it every step of the way. Others want him to use some fancy CSI "technology" to similarly instantly know stuff. The instant DNA test and faster-than-instant reconstruct-the-bullet-from-fragments-twenty-years-later machine.

    A Batman movie written as a fairplay mystery, or treated tonally as a mystery he's trying to solve; there's mileage in that. TDKR could've been that. '89 sort of was. But, there's no big money in it. And, a Batman movie has to be foremost about big money.
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  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    Batman does detective work in the '89 movie, both in terms of Joker's identity and investigative work on his big lethal plans.

    He does detective work in Returns, both looking into past crime waves and Penguin's possible history.
    That is correct.
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  15. #30
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    All of BvS was detectivework.... what is you talking about?

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