All-Star Batman #3 Preview/Discussion

[Atlanta96]

It's Snyder's book, not yours. The book was literally made for Scott Snyder to tell the story HE wants, not for the story Atlanta96 wants. Also, "giant middle finger...yaddda yadda" is such a gross overreaction. Snyder already said what he meant by the "Robin doesn't need Batman" on twitter, yet you choose to ignore it and make accusations.

Actions speak louder than words. He can claim he likes those characters all he wants, but his actual writing never indicates it. His only Bat-Family focused arc was basically hate mail to the concept of the Family. He's never focused on Tim, or Jason, or Damian, or even Dick (aside from Black Mirror 7 years ago) I don't believe he cares about those characters for a second.

His explanation for the Batman doesn't need a Robin, Duke is going to be better than Robin BS is weaker than his character creation skills. I still see Duke as a middle finger to Robin fans, and I don't see any evidence contradicting that.

And he did say "Batman doesn't need a Robin" in ASB #1. You seem to be ignoring that and focusing on the less offensive "Robin doesn't need Batman" line.

[Maxpower00044]

Actions speak louder than words. He can claim he likes those characters all he wants, but his actual writing never indicates it. His only Bat-Family focused arc was basically hate mail to the concept of the Family. He's never focused on Tim, or Jason, or Damian, or even Dick (aside from Black Mirror 7 years ago) I don't believe he cares about those characters for a second.

His explanation for the Batman doesn't need a Robin, Duke is going to be better than Robin BS is weaker than his character creation skills. I still see Duke as a middle finger to Robin fans, and I don't see any evidence contradicting that.

Except for all the things he says that you choose to write off......


This isn't even an argument having. Ignorance is bliss.

[Atlanta96]

Except for all the things he says that you choose to write off......


This isn't even an argument having. Ignorance is bliss.

What things? You mean interview quotes? I told you why I don't believe him, because his work never supports his claims.

[JBatmanFan05]

And he did say "Batman doesn't need a Robin" in ASB #1. You seem to be ignoring that and focusing on the less offensive "Robin doesn't need Batman" line.

Batman absolutely would say that in those circumstances with Duke or a trainee. Some go too far in trying to impute a character's words to the writer, it was Batman who said that, not Snyder in some interview.

[Maxpower00044]

What things? You mean interview quotes? I told you why I don't believe him, because his work never supports his claims.

You do realize this is fiction and he's crafting a story right? Not everything he writes in a story is something he himself believes. The fact that you think he's lying about something as minute as what fictional characters he is into is funny to me.

[Atlanta96]

You do realize this is fiction and he's crafting a story right? Not everything he writes in a story is something he himself believes. The fact that you think he's lying about something as minute as what fictional characters he is into is funny to me.

Can you really imagine a Batman writer flat out saying "I don't like Robin" or "I don't care about Robin" in an interview? That would piss off so many people, he doesn't have a choice. His work indicates that no, he doesn't care about those characters. Can you name an example from his work that contradicts that?

[Orujo-man]

This was a good issue, the fight against KGBeast is brutal. I'm not much fan of the history of Two-Face but is still enjoyable. The development of Duke is correct to me, he's an apprentice and is normal an slow progression of him. He has some good and funny points in the issue.

Apart he's a metalhead, that makes me happy.

[Maxpower00044]

Can you really imagine a Batman writer flat out saying "I don't like Robin" or "I don't care about Robin" in an interview? That would piss off so many people, he doesn't have a choice. His work indicates that no, he doesn't care about those characters. Can you name an example from his work that contradicts that?

Yes, I can. If he felt that way I'm sure he'd say so. If it breaks little fans' hearts, oh well.

Oh gee, I don't know, maybe a little story called 'Black Mirror' which is the best Dick Grayson as Batman story that wasn't penned by Grant Morrison? Or maybe it's 'Gates of Gotham' which has Dick, Damian, Tim, and Cass in it (all of them having good showings).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a writer wanting to write the characters he feels like writing. There's A LOT of things wrong with entitled fans who think stories should cater to exactly what they want. If you want the stories to play out the way you want, with the characters you want, then work real hard and maybe one day you can write your own comic (or you could just write some crappy fanfic that no one will want to read).

[Atlanta96]

Yes, I can. If he felt that way I'm sure he'd say so. If it breaks little fans' hearts, oh well.

Oh gee, I don't know, maybe a little story called 'Black Mirror' which is the best Dick Grayson as Batman story that wasn't penned by Grant Morrison? Or maybe it's 'Gates of Gotham' which has Dick, Damian, Tim, and Cass in it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a writer wanting to write the characters he feels like writing. There's A LOT of things wrong with entitled fans who think stories should catered to exactly what they want though.

Dude, people lie sometimes. Whether it's for a sympathetic reason like not wanting to disappoint fans, or a selfish one like trying to sustain his reputation. I think it's more likely that he's lying.

And when he wrote those Pre-Flashpoint stories he wasn't influential enough to get personal creations of his pushed the way Duke and Harper were. As soon as he became DC's golden boy, then he started ignoring the main Bat-Family in favor of his pet creations. This also seems to support my point.

And I don't want writers to do exactly what I want, trust me there's a lot more I could complain about but don't. I just think creators shouldn't sh*t on fans the way Snyder does.

[Maxpower00044]

Dude, people lie sometimes. Whether it's for a sympathetic reason like not wanting to disappoint fans, or a selfish one like trying to sustain his reputation. I think it's more likely that he's lying.

And when he wrote those Pre-Flashpoint stories he wasn't influential enough to get personal creations of his pushed the way Duke and Harper were. As soon as he became DC's golden boy, then he started ignoring the main Bat-Family in favor of his pet creations. This also seems to support my point.

And I don't want writers to do exactly what I want, trust me there's a lot more I could complain about but don't. I just think creators shouldn't sh*t on fans the way Snyder does.

Of course people lie. Snyder isn't lying here though. Sorry.

Actually those are just excuses. No point proven at all.

Scott Snyder is one of my favorite writers in the industry. He hasn't shit on me as a fan once. Not one time.

[Atlanta96]

Of course people lie. Snyder isn't lying here though. Sorry.

Actually those are just excuses. No point proven at all.

Scott Snyder is one of my favorite writers in the industry. He hasn't shit on me as a fan once. Not one time.

You claim Snyder isn't lying without any evidence to support it. I at least gave a reason I felt like he was, don't tell me I'm not making points when you're the one avoiding evidence.

And I don't know how you feel about Damian, Jason, Stephanie Brown etc, but since you hate Tim Drake I'm assuming you don't like the Bat-Family as much as I do. Which might explain why you're not as upset with Snyder as fans like myself are.

[Maxpower00044]

You claim Snyder isn't lying without any evidence to support it. I at least gave a reason I felt like he was, don't tell me I'm not making points when you're the one avoiding evidence.

And I don't know how you feel about Damian, Jason, Stephanie Brown etc, but since you hate Tim Drake I'm assuming you don't like the Bat-Family as much as I do. Which might explain why you're not as upset with Snyder as fans like myself are.

Your "evidence" is baseless at best. You're using fictional stories to try make a claim (not real), while I'm using info he provided in interviews and on Twitter (real). Agree to disagree, I guess.


Actually, Dick Grayson and Damian Wayne are two of my favorite characters. I just respect Snyder's wishes and reasonings for not using Damian because I'm rational. I don't think these stories need to revolve around what I want, or who I want in them. Once again, with the baseless assumptions.


I'm gonna just say agree to disagree, and try my hardest to not answer you again.

[failo.legendkiller]

It's pretty easy to understand Snyder favoring Duke - every major Batman writer wants to create his own toys to play with. That's why we have 4 Robins in the first place

It's why we have Harold, Tomasi's Carrie Kelley, Post-Crisis Huntress, Azraels, Batwings, Cassandra Cain, etc. I think people have to be a tad more sympathetic to and understanding towards writers wanting to play with their own created toys, but of course we don't have to like the characters. I would have a bigger problem with Duke if he was Robin or if post-Snyder he continues to hurt other bigger Batfam members with page space.

DC's editors just always have to be mindful that many want to see established Batfam members used more by main writers in main showcases (if Batman isn't going solo, which Batfans also love) and that an overflowing Batfam can become a big annoyance to Batfans.

They're trying to set up Duke more his own series, and so I see the context here for why Duke is being used as much as he is, for now. I think soon enough, Duke will be put where he belongs according to how much fans truly like him or not like him as a character, he will be given his sink or swim moment. They're just setting him up some before cutting him loose from Batman's side in main books.

You're right, Snyder is trying to create his own toys to play with, and it's licit.
However this is the first time in 30 years that i can't connect at all with new batfamily characters (Duke and Harper), because they are nothing new and they seem to be superfluous.
Dick was created to take a light in Dark Knight's life, and became one of the most popoular character of all times.
Jason was created to fill a void
Tim was creatde to fill a void
Batgirl was created to attract female people
Huntress, i can't remember when or why she was created, anyway she grew with time becaming a strong character, that well integrated herself with every other batfam member.
Azrael was functional to a story that became epic.
Damian was functional to a story that (unfortunally) changed forever the Robin character's core, however he's a very interesting character that added so many way out to the batman universe.
Batwing, to me is another weak link. Anyway i care about him.
Cassandra was created to fill a void, now she's a little redundant.
Spoiler was created as a support cast to Tim and then used for others important storylines.
Harlod has the scope to mildy explain how Batman can provide his weapon toys.

I really don't understand what's the purpouse to have Duke and Harper. Storylines could be the same without them, they don't add anything that other characters don't fill yet.
Snyder is a great writer, and that's the reason i can't drop his books, but he has flaws. His management of the batfamily is one of them.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

On this whole don't buy the book if you don't like one character, you have to understand this can be applied to every character including Batman with his features in JL and other events being seen as "Batgod". What matters is the writer guiding a character pass the dislike like Grant Morrison did with Damian and UTRH did for Jason who was dead for decades. Snyder is still a great writer and still demands viewership of the main lead in Batman but there is no stipulation that a reader has to like or accept the appearance of some characters. Snyder has had a track record of failures to launch his creations in the Bat universe like Calvin Rose/Talon & Harper Row/Bluebird. Calvin was just shooed off into obscurity while Harper gained mass dislike after B&RE and couldn't find a home with Batgirl and is a second wave character in Detective and she got the same amount of hatred as Duke so it can not be easily tied to race imo. Duke won't just disappear in a year or two but his path towards a solo is dangerously more similar a Talon or We Are Robin than Batgirl or Nightwing.

[Atlanta96]

On this whole don't buy the book if you don't like one character, you have to understand this can be applied to every character including Batman with his features in JL and other events being seen as "Batgod". What matters is the writer guiding a character pass the dislike like Grant Morrison did with Damian and UTRH did for Jason who was dead for decades. Snyder is still a great writer and still demands viewership of the main lead in Batman but there is no stipulation that a reader has to like or accept the appearance of some characters. Snyder has had a track record of failures to launch his creations in the Bat universe like Calvin Rose/Talon & Harper Row/Bluebird. Calvin was just shooed off into obscurity while Harper gained mass dislike after B&RE and couldn't find a home with Batgirl and is a second wave character in Detective and she got the same amount of hatred as Duke so it can not be easily tied to race imo. Duke won't just disappear in a year or two but his path towards a solo is dangerously more similar a Talon or We Are Robin than Batgirl or Nightwing.

I don't expect him to disappear, I just want him to be avoidable. As much as I loathe Harper I'm not that upset about her being in 'Tec, because she's just a supporting character in a team book that I can easily ignore. Once Duke stops showing up in 2/3 of all Batman comics, I'll probably get over my anger. Cause there's no way he'll be this ubiquitous 2 years from now, even if he does gain a little bit of popularity.