Duke Thomas: We Are Robin, Signal Appreciation 2018

[J. D. Guy]

Is that King's doing or a side effect from Johns? Remember everyone has to clear their stories through him (at least for the first few arcs) as he plotting out the next 2 years.

Remember they are ignoring We Are Robin and we saw the Duke disrespect in Robin War, Batman & Detective Comics-what editor allows a character to get drawn 8 different ways in one story?

And don't forget the Duke backlash where people were and still boycott the book over him.

We still have the Batman event this summer-if he does NOTHING-then DC needs to be called out.

It could be Johns' influence, but it's not an issue for Synder, so I dunno.

I suppose the biggest way to see if they really do acknowledge We Are Robin is for one of them to bring back Duke's old crew for an a storyline, which in turn would require they focus on Duke. (The inconsistencies between his appearances was kinda iffy, especially where he's taking one of those "10-Minute Retirements" in one book but he's still totally active in another; timeline flubbing can only cover so much as an excuse after all.)

As for the event that Synder's heading, we'll see. We don't have enough info to do anything but speculate at this moment, but with Snyder helming things, and apparently Batman, and likely his family by extension, especially with Snyder as head, Duke getting some kind of decent role wouldn't be out of the question. In that sense, I look forward to the potential of things.

This is the scene I do not have the link for it. It was posted on the Dick Grayson Appreciation Thread without quoting the source.



I do hope we have more interact cos at the moment everything is so disjointed and Duke feels separate from the rest of the rest of the family.

Nice pic of Nightwing. I can see why it was posted in his Appreciation Thread.

Having said, and knowing that this is just some kind of preliminary picture, I do have some issues about it, specifically that Nightwing is so prominent in this group shot in the way that he is. I'm not too fond of how his presence dwarfs the other characters, including Batgirl, who's in front of him for goodness's sake, and Red Hood, who's drawn shorter and smaller (perspective should be that big a difference here, either). There's no real reason his leg should be out like that, and as tall as he is, he outta be behind and between Damian and Jason, which would give more room for Batgirl not to look so eclipsed by him, and for Batwoman and Duke not to need to be so on the border.

Speaking of the latter, and imagining the picture from a real life standpoint, Dick is right in Duke's line of sight toward Batman, and the more I look at it and realize that, the more awkward it makes that pic look.

Hopefully that's not the final composition for that shot (even though it probably is), 'cause I really feel it could be better on multiple fronts. Alright, I'm finished with that.

It's not a Batman event, it's a DC event with Batman taking the lead which is par the course as far as DC is concerned. Sorry but neither Dick nor Damian nor any any Batman character played a role in Final Crisis so Duke has no reason to play some humongous role nor should his fans start acting entitled because he isn't standing shoulder to shoulder with Superman. Duke was front and center in Robin War and Night of the Monster Men which were the last 2 back to back crossovers involving the Bat line. DC doesn't have to be called out on anything.

Duke was in Monster Men, but it's a stretch to call him being "front and center".

Besides, it's far too soon to be talking finalities and certainties in any direction anyway. Not enough information beyond what little has been teased.

[dietrich]

It could be Johns' influence, but it's not an issue for Synder, so I dunno.

I suppose the biggest way to see if they really do acknowledge We Are Robin is for one of them to bring back Duke's old crew for an a storyline, which in turn would require they focus on Duke. (The inconsistencies between his appearances was kinda iffy, especially where he's taking one of those "10-Minute Retirements" in one book but he's still totally active in another; timeline flubbing can only cover so much as an excuse after all.)

As for the event that Synder's heading, we'll see. We don't have enough info to do anything but speculate at this moment, but with Snyder helming things, and apparently Batman, and likely his family by extension, especially with Snyder as head, Duke getting some kind of decent role wouldn't be out of the question. In that sense, I look forward to the potential of things.



Nice pic of Nightwing. I can see why it was posted in his Appreciation Thread.

Having said, and knowing that this is just some kind of preliminary picture, I do have some issues about it, specifically that Nightwing is so prominent in this group shot in the way that he is. I'm not too fond of how his presence dwarfs the other characters, including Batgirl, who's in front of him for goodness's sake, and Red Hood, who's drawn shorter and smaller (perspective should be that big a difference here, either). There's no real reason his leg should be out like that, and as tall as he is, he outta be behind and between Damian and Jason, which would give more room for Batgirl not to look so eclipsed by him, and for Batwoman and Duke not to need to be so on the border.

Speaking of the latter, and imagining the picture from a real life standpoint, Dick is right in Duke's line of sight toward Batman, and the more I look at it and realize that, the more awkward it makes that pic look.

Hopefully that's not the final composition for that shot (even though it probably is), 'cause I really feel it could be better on multiple fronts. Alright, I'm finished with that.

I'm sorry but I disagree. The composition is exactly as it should be. Dick is the head of the family after Bruce so I see no problem with him taking centre stage as he is essentially the other members rep.

This is the 1st time these members of the family are appearing in the main Batbook so they should be spotlighted.

Maybe it's fan service to appease fans who have been complaining about the lack of the family in the main book since Rebirth and it is a smart move.

A lot of the negativity that used to surround Duke stem from the fact that fans felt like the other member's were being squeezed out in favour of Synder's character's. Remember Rowgate? I feel this a smart way to feature Duke and the rest of the family without claims that he is being pushed more than others.

[JasonTodd428]

Nice pic of Nightwing. I can see why it was posted in his Appreciation Thread.

Having said, and knowing that this is just some kind of preliminary picture, I do have some issues about it, specifically that Nightwing is so prominent in this group shot in the way that he is. I'm not too fond of how his presence dwarfs the other characters, including Batgirl, who's in front of him for goodness's sake, and Red Hood, who's drawn shorter and smaller (perspective should be that big a difference here, either). There's no real reason his leg should be out like that, and as tall as he is, he outta be behind and between Damian and Jason, which would give more room for Batgirl not to look so eclipsed by him, and for Batwoman and Duke not to need to be so on the border.

Speaking of the latter, and imagining the picture from a real life standpoint, Dick is right in Duke's line of sight toward Batman, and the more I look at it and realize that, the more awkward it makes that pic look.

Hopefully that's not the final composition for that shot (even though it probably is), 'cause I really feel it could be better on multiple fronts. Alright, I'm finished with that.

I have to disagree with you there. I don't think that Nightwing is dwarfing anyone in that picture and that the artist's use of perspective is perfectly fine. You mention Red Hood being shorter and smaller but it seems to me that its because he is standing farthest back in that group rather than because Dick's somehow dwarfing him. Both Batwoman and Duke look to be a bit closer in than Jason to me and Jason has pretty much always been drawn in the background of Bat Family gatherings like this one. I really don't see anything odd or out of place here at all.

[dietrich]

I have to disagree with you there. I don't think that Nightwing is dwarfing anyone in that picture and that the artist's use of perspective is perfectly fine. You mention Red Hood being shorter and smaller but it seems to me that its because he is standing farthest back in that group rather than because Dick's somehow dwarfing him. Both Batwoman and Duke look to be a bit closer in than Jason to me and Jason has pretty much always been drawn in the background of Bat Family gatherings like this one. I really don't see anything odd or out of place here at all.

True and if you look closer Jason is leaning on the wall not standing straight up.

[JasonTodd428]

True and if you look closer Jason is leaning on the wall not standing straight up.

I noticed that too.

[J. D. Guy]

I'm sorry but I disagree. The composition is exactly as it should be. Dick is the head of the family after Bruce so I see no problem with him taking centre stage as he is essentially the other members rep.

This is the 1st time these members of the family are appearing in the main Batbook so they should be spotlighted.

Maybe it's fan service to appease fans who have been complaining about the lack of the family in the main book since Rebirth and it is a smart move.

A lot of the negativity that used to surround Duke stem from the fact that fans felt like the other member's were being squeezed out in favour of Synder's character's. Remember Rowgate? I feel this a smart way to feature Duke and the rest of the family without claims that he is being pushed more than others.

It's weird for me, too, that I feel this way about this shot.

I don't have an issue with Nightwing being the highlight, so long as it's done in a way so as to not come off as if he's overshadowing anyone else. For me, the picture's angle and layout kind of does so in an awkward fashion.

I also don't have an issue with Batfamily pics like these, and am really happy that Duke's included in the shot. It's just the layout of this particular picture, and perhaps the angle, that I wish was a bit different.

I have to disagree with you there. I don't think that Nightwing is dwarfing anyone in that picture and that the artist's use of perspective is perfectly fine. You mention Red Hood being shorter and smaller but it seems to me that its because he is standing farthest back in that group rather than because Dick's somehow dwarfing him. Both Batwoman and Duke look to be a bit closer in than Jason to me and Jason has pretty much always been drawn in the background of Bat Family gatherings like this one. I really don't see anything odd or out of place here at all.

I dunno, maybe it's just the angle that's not doing it for me. I normally don't feel like this with pics like these, one way or the other, but I just don't with this one.

Jason might be hanging back and leaning on the wall/computer console, but the perspective as shown in the shot still makes Nightwing overshadow him (and Barbara) to me, not to mention blocking Duke's view of Batman.

[J. D. Guy]

On another note, Cursed Wheel Part 6 came off feeling better paced than part 5 for me.

I am a complete sucker for Bruce and Duke moments (Bruce and Jason/Damian/anyone that's done in a familial way, really).

It's something to note that Duke is doubting himself due to some of the setbacks he's suffered (coincidentally, this would tie in nicely to Duke, seemingly initially, taking Bruce's advice to "get outta Dodge" before Bane comes in full force during Batman #16). It's at the point that Bruce is more patient with Duke than he is with himself.

"Lark" also gets name-dropped for the first time chronologically here by the simulation Riddler's riddle. Obvious foreshadowing is obvious.

[JasonTodd428]

I dunno, maybe it's just the angle that's not doing it for me. I normally don't feel like this with pics like these, one way or the other, but I just don't with this one.

Jason might be hanging back and leaning on the wall/computer console, but the perspective as shown in the shot still makes Nightwing overshadow him (and Barbara) to me, not to mention blocking Duke's view of Batman.

I just don't feel that way myself. Let me ask you this if Dick's was just standing straight there without his leg like it is would that change things from your perspective?

[J. D. Guy]

I just don't feel that way myself. Let me ask you this if Dick's was just standing straight there without his leg like it is would that change things from your perspective?

Imagining it, I think that would help, at least a little, since he'd still be the most prominent person in that shot. It would especially help with Batgirl's position on the picture in relation to Dick. Duke, not so much, though, as Dick would still be in Duke's line of sight towards Batman while Bats is talking.

[JasonTodd428]

If he were standing with both feet on the floor I think he would be standing a bit farther over than he is so I don't think he would be in Duke's line-of-sight. The positioning of his leg is the only reason he is standing where he is in the current picture.

[Aahz]

I'm sorry but I disagree. The composition is exactly as it should be. Dick is the head of the family after Bruce so I see no problem with him taking centre stage as he is essentially the other members rep.

This is the 1st time these members of the family are appearing in the main Batbook so they should be spotlighted.

Maybe it's fan service to appease fans who have been complaining about the lack of the family in the main book since Rebirth and it is a smart move.

A lot of the negativity that used to surround Duke stem from the fact that fans felt like the other member's were being squeezed out in favour of Synder's character's. Remember Rowgate? I feel this a smart way to feature Duke and the rest of the family without claims that he is being pushed more than others.

The problem is that they kind of neglected certain charaters since the beginning of the new 52 and didn't properly rebuild them pre flashpoint.

There is still imo alot to do with Tim (Tec was a good start, but they took him out way to early), if he would get a solo (and if it was just a back up like Duke) that could really help to rebuild him.

Jason does also need a stronger role in the Batfamily. His reintroduction in the Family was very rushed and in the last cross overs he was mostly used to make other characters look good, instead of giving him push.

Barbara is at the moment also in danger of becoming more of a fringe member, she didn't appear much in the events since Batman Eternal and now kind of lost her role as mentor of the younger girls to Kate.

[dietrich]

The problem is that they kind of neglected certain charaters since the beginning of the new 52 and didn't properly rebuild them pre flashpoint.

There is still imo alot to do with Tim (Tec was a good start, but they took him out way to early), if he would get a solo (and if it was just a back up like Duke) that could really help to rebuild him.

Jason does also need a stronger role in the Batfamily. His reintroduction in the Family was very rushed and in the last cross overs he was mostly used to make other characters look good, instead of giving him push.

Barbara is at the moment also in danger of becoming more of a fringe member, she didn't appear much in the events since Batman Eternal and now kind of lost her role as mentor of the younger girls to Kate.

But Rebirth is already fixing that.

Lobdell is doing a fantastic job of rebuilding Jason's relationship with Bruce and King and Seeley seem to be following suit if that cover and picture from Nightwing is anything to go by.

Tim is getting fixed in Tec though they shelved him too soon but I expect his restoration will continue once/if he returns.

Those character's aren't mandatory in the main Batman book so I don't mind them not showing up so far though it does feel strange that Damian has thus far not been featured or mentioned since he is a minor, current Robin and living at the manor.

All these characters have their own books; some have 2 so I don't mind Duke being given the room to grow in the main book and All Star.

Yes mistakes were made in the handling of character's in the nu52 but Rebirth appears to be working on fixing those mistakes and missteps. I guess we will find out with I am Bane and the crossover event this summer how much DC has taken those criticisms on board.

[dietrich]

It's weird for me, too, that I feel this way about this shot.

I don't have an issue with Nightwing being the highlight, so long as it's done in a way so as to not come off as if he's overshadowing anyone else. For me, the picture's angle and layout kind of does so in an awkward fashion.

I also don't have an issue with Batfamily pics like these, and am really happy that Duke's included in the shot. It's just the layout of this particular picture, and perhaps the angle, that I wish was a bit different.

Fair enough.

[darkseidpwns]

It could be Johns' influence, but it's not an issue for Synder, so I dunno.

I suppose the biggest way to see if they really do acknowledge We Are Robin is for one of them to bring back Duke's old crew for an a storyline, which in turn would require they focus on Duke. (The inconsistencies between his appearances was kinda iffy, especially where he's taking one of those "10-Minute Retirements" in one book but he's still totally active in another; timeline flubbing can only cover so much as an excuse after all.)

As for the event that Synder's heading, we'll see. We don't have enough info to do anything but speculate at this moment, but with Snyder helming things, and apparently Batman, and likely his family by extension, especially with Snyder as head, Duke getting some kind of decent role wouldn't be out of the question. In that sense, I look forward to the potential of things.



Nice pic of Nightwing. I can see why it was posted in his Appreciation Thread.

Having said, and knowing that this is just some kind of preliminary picture, I do have some issues about it, specifically that Nightwing is so prominent in this group shot in the way that he is. I'm not too fond of how his presence dwarfs the other characters, including Batgirl, who's in front of him for goodness's sake, and Red Hood, who's drawn shorter and smaller (perspective should be that big a difference here, either). There's no real reason his leg should be out like that, and as tall as he is, he outta be behind and between Damian and Jason, which would give more room for Batgirl not to look so eclipsed by him, and for Batwoman and Duke not to need to be so on the border.

Speaking of the latter, and imagining the picture from a real life standpoint, Dick is right in Duke's line of sight toward Batman, and the more I look at it and realize that, the more awkward it makes that pic look.

Hopefully that's not the final composition for that shot (even though it probably is), 'cause I really feel it could be better on multiple fronts. Alright, I'm finished with that.



Duke was in Monster Men, but it's a stretch to call him being "front and center".

Besides, it's far too soon to be talking finalities and certainties in any direction anyway. Not enough information beyond what little has been teased.

We're talking about the same event which ignored Damian & Babs, for which Drake was taken out of the equation and in which Steph and Cass were wallpaper. Kate,Duke,Gotham Girl and Dick were the ones heavily involved in that story. 3 of these characters are only recent additions to the family, Duke and Gotham Girl in particular dont even have a place in the status quo but they still got prominent panel time. If anything Damian and Babs fans should be complaining.

[Aahz]

But Rebirth is already fixing that.

Partly.

Tim is still the only Robin were gat hardly any info about his time before the start of the continuity, and his parents were also hardly used so far.

In Jasons case they have still alot to make up for the crap they did with him in the past cross overs. And imo they really need to find a better role for him in the Batfamily.

And Barbaras book just feels disjoined to the rest of the franchise. And I think they need to find a way to have both (her and Kate) in the Batfamily.


And imo it is just time for them to get the centerstage in a bigger storyline, all the others had their turn.