Duke Thomas: We Are Robin, Signal Appreciation 2018

[J. D. Guy]

Currently on Amazon that trade ranks

222 for DC Super Hero trades
771 for overall Super Hero trades.

I did so some looking around at other books that came out between May 2018-August 2018 to see where Duke ranked.



It depends on what your goal is for Duke.

If you wanted him to beat Miles Morales, Ms Marvel & Squirrel Girl. Based on Amazon numbers for their last trades and his-Duke loses BADLY.
If you wanted him to beat Moon Girl or Kate Bishop-he won.

If you wanted to see how he holds up against the likes of Priest's Justice League run, Flash, Hal Jordan, Green Arrow, Aquaman, WW, Teen Titans, Orlando's JLA, Supergirl & Cyborg. He PASSES. He beat all of their recent trades. He SOUNDLY beat Supergirl & Cyborg.

He is still DC's black top selling black hero with a book of his own.

For what little that has been done with him-you got a success. I think if you had him do more than panel cameos in Batman (looking at YOU Tom King) and be the book I thought it was going to be (like Bruce & Tim in the 90s where you saw them together). The numbers would have been higher.

I would say try another mini series. Because Dc needs SOMEONE to counter not so much Miles Morales but Patriot. Since he is in the Marvel rising film and got toys coming. Meaning we will see him and Falcon together again. So why not counter with Batman & Duke?

So that means as Synder said, Duke's mini did do better than expected and held its own where it mattered, and showed that there is an audience for him and what he stands for.

As for Rayshaun/Patriot, you might be right. His Marvel Initiative version, especially, if Marvel follows through like they seem to be with the new brand, could well mean something. In such a case, yeah, I could see The Signal and Patriot potentially being "rivals", maybe. (Theoretically, there's room enough for both; but the ball still on DC's court to earnestly push Duke/The Signal regardless.)

No disrespect to Tom King. But it's very weird when someone would rather develop Kite-Man than The Signal. With Duke, there are so many things you can play with. Orlando did well with that.

Yeah, that's is kinda too bad. I'm sure folks loved Kite-Man's prevalence, even though it's freaking Kite-Man. That Tom King treated Kite-Man better than Duke, even simply as a recurring presence, really doesn't speak well to King's handling of Duke.

Now, this coming December, he'll have Batman fraternizing with the Penguin...

[lemonpeace]

I came across a fan analysis of Duke's personality on tumblr and found it interesting. Wanted to see what you guys think, maybe get a discourse going on the character's development.

Duke’s path to heroism begins before he ever meets Batman. It starts when he meets Bruce Wayne. He meets Gotham’s prodigal son during the Zero Year event, when his parents bring the unconscious Wayne into their home. When they meet, Duke is already studying up and planning to take on the Riddler by himself. He’s all of 10 at this point, and there’s a man who has taken over the entire city, and Duke is completely unafraid. The consequences for failing the Riddler’s test are dire, but it doesn’t matter. Duke is willing, Duke is ready.

After this, we see the next major development of Duke’s personality. Batman, who Duke has looked up to since he was rescued in the wilds of the Zero Year while fishing, is gone. And so are his parents. Duke enters foster care and essentially becomes a problem child. He has gained a deep distrust of authority and a fierce independence. He bounces around foster homes, refusing to stay put and be used, because he has learned to rely on himself for his needs. He’s had it rough. He develops his manifesto of “Robin doesn’t need Batman”, which is a perfect summation of how he operates as a hero. Further still, Duke chose the vigilante life on his own. He recognizes it’s crazy and irresponsible and he can’t help it, it’s called to him.

At this point he's joined and even leads a division of the We Are Robin Movement, and we see him developed a bit further in relation to Bruce specifically. By this point he has also deduced the identities of 3 members of the Batfamily (Bruce, Dick, and Damian), and knows that Bruce is hiding from himself [post-endgame]. He confronts him on it, calls Bruce on his bs, and that’s another important facet to Duke’s personality. He doesn’t take ****. At all. Duke stands firm in his identity and doesn’t take others being untrue to themselves lightly. Duke is perceptive enough to call someone’s bluff.

Now, while Duke is fully prepared for crazy and being a hero, he is still unsure of what that means in relation to the Batfamily. Note that this isn’t the same as feeling out of his depth; Duke would be a vigilante regardless of the others. He already was one. But now that he’s in the gold, he has doubts as to what that actually means. He’s not like them, but only because he’s not in the dark. He literally operates in the light. He’s not hiding. Because he’s not afraid of who he is and what is in him.

[Korath]

I concur with this message, and I hope that Hill will make a great use of him in the future. He should be used as the Bat-hero actually involved in social movement in Gotham and all that. He's deeply ingrained in the life of the city, contrary to most of the Bat-family who are really distant, one way or another, from the normal life of Gotham (Billionaire, Circus kid, Crime Alley kid, daughter of the Commissioner, daughter of a criminal mastermind, daughter of two assassins) with only Tim being from a rather normal background, but actually took the role of Robin willingly, seeing it as a mantle, when Duke never did.

[lemonpeace]

I concur with this message, and I hope that Hill will make a great use of him in the future. He should be used as the Bat-hero actually involved in social movement in Gotham and all that. He's deeply ingrained in the life of the city, contrary to most of the Bat-family who are really distant, one way or another, from the normal life of Gotham (Billionaire, Circus kid, Crime Alley kid, daughter of the Commissioner, daughter of a criminal mastermind, daughter of two assassins) with only Tim being from a rather normal background, but actually took the role of Robin willingly, seeing it as a mantle, when Duke never did.

My hope for Duke would be if they could somehow mix social issues with all the metahuman/immortal stuff. I love the idea of Duke being the Bat protege to take the social hero role but not at the expense of the concept that can elevate him beyond just Gotham.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I came across a fan analysis of Duke's personality on tumblr and found it interesting. Wanted to see what you guys think, maybe get a discourse going on the character's development.

That was great.

[J. D. Guy]

I came across a fan analysis of Duke's personality on tumblr and found it interesting. Wanted to see what you guys think, maybe get a discourse going on the character's development.

Duke’s path to heroism begins before he ever meets Batman. It starts when he meets Bruce Wayne. He meets Gotham’s prodigal son during the Zero Year event, when his parents bring the unconscious Wayne into their home. When they meet, Duke is already studying up and planning to take on the Riddler by himself. He’s all of 10 at this point, and there’s a man who has taken over the entire city, and Duke is completely unafraid. The consequences for failing the Riddler’s test are dire, but it doesn’t matter. Duke is willing, Duke is ready.

After this, we see the next major development of Duke’s personality. Batman, who Duke has looked up to since he was rescued in the wilds of the Zero Year while fishing, is gone. And so are his parents. Duke enters foster care and essentially becomes a problem child. He has gained a deep distrust of authority and a fierce independence. He bounces around foster homes, refusing to stay put and be used, because he has learned to rely on himself for his needs. He’s had it rough. He develops his manifesto of “Robin doesn’t need Batman”, which is a perfect summation of how he operates as a hero. Further still, Duke chose the vigilante life on his own. He recognizes it’s crazy and irresponsible and he can’t help it, it’s called to him.

At this point he's joined and even leads a division of the We Are Robin Movement, and we see him developed a bit further in relation to Bruce specifically. By this point he has also deduced the identities of 3 members of the Batfamily (Bruce, Dick, and Damian), and knows that Bruce is hiding from himself [post-endgame]. He confronts him on it, calls Bruce on his bs, and that’s another important facet to Duke’s personality. He doesn’t take ****. At all. Duke stands firm in his identity and doesn’t take others being untrue to themselves lightly. Duke is perceptive enough to call someone’s bluff.

Now, while Duke is fully prepared for crazy and being a hero, he is still unsure of what that means in relation to the Batfamily. Note that this isn’t the same as feeling out of his depth; Duke would be a vigilante regardless of the others. He already was one. But now that he’s in the gold, he has doubts as to what that actually means. He’s not like them, but only because he’s not in the dark. He literally operates in the light. He’s not hiding. Because he’s not afraid of who he is and what is in him.

Do you happen to have the link for the post where you found this?


This is a nice read. Whoever this person is, they know what they are talking about regarding the nuances of Duke's character. It's always refreshing to see someone who gets the character. This person also has some nice insights on top of that, too, which made it even sweeter to read. Prime of all, they are able to see and understand how and why Duke is both independently minded (and so not a loner, but still of an independent mind) and yet still has some doubts about how he should go about doing what he knows he wants to and needs to do, as we have seen during the We Are Robin run and his 3-issue mini. Second, I like how the person who wrote this pointed out that Duke's spirit is such that he was destined to be a vigilante and would have done so eventually even without the influence of Bruce and the Batfamily, as the case with young Duke trying to come up with a perfect riddle to stop the Riddler shows/foreshadows.

Very nice read. The depth is such that this person had to have read the things the character was in to create the summation and the analysis that they did, meaning we can tell they didn't just knee-jerk it or form their view from someone else's who didn't actually read any of Duke's stories.

Good find! Once again, lemonpeace, do you have a link to the post?

I concur with this message, and I hope that Hill will make a great use of him in the future. He should be used as the Bat-hero actually involved in social movement in Gotham and all that. He's deeply ingrained in the life of the city, contrary to most of the Bat-family who are really distant, one way or another, from the normal life of Gotham (Billionaire, Circus kid, Crime Alley kid, daughter of the Commissioner, daughter of a criminal mastermind, daughter of two assassins) with only Tim being from a rather normal background, but actually took the role of Robin willingly, seeing it as a mantle, when Duke never did.

That would be a cool direction, and would tie-in nicely to the fact that his mother was a Gotham social worker.

My hope for Duke would be if they could somehow mix social issues with all the metahuman/immortal stuff. I love the idea of Duke being the Bat protege to take the social hero role but not at the expense of the concept that can elevate him beyond just Gotham.

Being a social hero of Gotham would, again, tie into his roots and his mother's profession. That said, the metahuman and immortal aspects are indeed something that shouldn't be dropped and should be expounded upon (once again, we need Tony Patrick to finish what he began).

[lemonpeace]

Do you happen to have the link for the post where you found this?


This is a nice read. Whoever this person is, they know what they are talking about regarding the nuances of Duke's character. It's always refreshing to see someone who gets the character. This person also has some nice insights on top of that, too, which made it even sweeter to read. Prime of all, they are able to see and understand how and why Duke is both independently minded (and so not a loner, but still of an independent mind) and yet still has some doubts about how he should go about doing what he knows he wants to and needs to do, as we have seen during the We Are Robin run and his 3-issue mini. Second, I like how the person who wrote this pointed out that Duke's spirit is such that he was destined to be a vigilante and would have done so eventually even without the influence of Bruce and the Batfamily, as the case with young Duke trying to come up with a perfect riddle to stop the Riddler shows/foreshadows.

Very nice read. The depth is such that this person had to have read the things the character was in to create the summation and the analysis that they did, meaning we can tell they didn't just knee-jerk it or form their view from someone else's who didn't actually read any of Duke's stories.

Good find! Once again, lemonpeace, do you have a link to the post?

Here's the link to the post: http://fivecentsless.tumblr.com/post...ch-but-i-often

It was a response to a user asking about Duke. I changed a couple words but it's largely the same. There's some shipping stuff but they appear to have a very firm grasp on the character

Being a social hero of Gotham would, again, tie into his roots and his mother's profession. That said, the metahuman and immortal aspects are indeed something that shouldn't be dropped and should be expounded upon (once again, we need Tony Patrick to finish what he began).

I see what you mean but what I meant was having him address social issues and using the meta and immortal stuff to enhance that narrative (and vice versa). I feel like taking that route would allow the character to have his roots in Gotham but won't anchor him to it and with metas popping up everywhere and the immortals being a global conflict he always has a reason to break out into the larger DC universe.

[J. D. Guy]

Here's the link to the post: http://fivecentsless.tumblr.com/post...ch-but-i-often

It was a response to a user asking about Duke. I changed a couple words but it's largely the same. There's some shipping stuff but they appear to have a very firm grasp on the character



I see what you mean but what I meant was having him address social issues and using the meta and immortal stuff to enhance that narrative (and vice versa). I feel like taking that route would allow the character to have his roots in Gotham but won't anchor him to it and with metas popping up everywhere and the immortals being a global conflict he always has a reason to break out into the larger DC universe.

Thanks for the source link. It's always good to see where stuff comes from whenever possible.

It seems that even though the context was in response to someone wanting to know how to better write Duke in their fanfiction, and even though the responder holds some shipping opinions (but places like that are a given when it comes to shipping opinions, and this post doesn't actually have any), the responder still shows they have a handle on who Duke is as a character.

Also, I wonder how accurate their take on the general fandom's outlook to Duke's character is? That is, does the GF really see Duke as nothing more than his (so far canonically only 2: after a fellow We Are Robin-er died and not long after becoming The Signal in the mini) lowest points of self-doubt, ignoring everything else?


As long as they keep going about like in The Unexpected (and it'd have been nice if The Signal could have stuck around for a bit), I think that close to the right direction. But yeah, we'd need someone to do that as part of some kind of ongoing that starred or prominently featured Duke, and blend is Social Heroism background with his meta/immortal background in such a way that both backgrounds enhance the other and each background ties into Gotham and the greater DC Universe.

One of the things I would like is for Duke/The Signal to meet up with and ultimately befriend Derek/Sideways. That would be good on many levels, and each characters' ties would benefit the other. Derek could always use the positive hero influence from Duke and Duke would benefit from Derek's metahuman/Dark Matter affairs. In a perfect world where Duke/The Signal wasn't underutilized, this would have happened already.

[Korath]

Concerning the ties between social heroism and immortals, I can think of two main ways to do it, in a very rough it :
-an immortal, like Gnomon, feels that he alone can decide what society should be and Duke has to step in and prove that youth and immortality are not tied to who can and can't decide what society should be
-an immortal actually offer to Duke to engineer changes which will happens centuries or even thousands of years in the future, showing how they are basically unable to care about the present pasted a certain age

[J. D. Guy]

Concerning the ties between social heroism and immortals, I can think of two main ways to do it, in a very rough it :
-an immortal, like Gnomon, feels that he alone can decide what society should be and Duke has to step in and prove that youth and immortality are not tied to who can and can't decide what society should be
-an immortal actually offer to Duke to engineer changes which will happens centuries or even thousands of years in the future, showing how they are basically unable to care about the present pasted a certain age

I get your first point, but could you reiterate your second point? Are you saying that, under such a storyline, an Immortal seeks out Duke to help make changes that come to pass in the future because the Immortal cannot fully "comprehend" what is needed for present day and age because of their detachment?

[Korath]

Yeah. Basically, an Immortal would seek out Duke to be his "tool" to kickstart changes centuries in the making, because for him, the notion that peoples need changes in their lives has become utterly alien. What's 3 years for a being older than Babylone ? Or 30 ? 300 ?

[J. D. Guy]

Yeah. Basically, an Immortal would seek out Duke to be his "tool" to kickstart changes centuries in the making, because for him, the notion that peoples need changes in their lives has become utterly alien. What's 3 years for a being older than Babylone ? Or 30 ? 300 ?

Nice way of making use that part of Duke/The Signal's character.

[Korath]

Thanks.

Honestly, I would like to see Duke confronting an Immortal who wouldn't understand all the fuss about slavery and civil rights. A being so old that for him, all those institutions which seems ingrained in today's life in the West (nation-states, democracy, etc.) would be strange novelties, possibly the quizzical behaviour of unruly children.

I really think that D.C. isn't making the best use of its Immortals, be they Vandal, Ra's or the Immortal Men and their houses. They should devote more time to display how those beings are, pasted a certain point, utterly unrelatable to mortals, with Duke thus facing what may wait for him in the future. Or he could face an Immortal who did champion what was seen as progressive positions on social issues in the past, be it the end of slavery, or something older, only to now appears set in his ways and unable to accept that the world still has to change.

It could be interesting if done right.

[J. D. Guy]

Thanks.

Honestly, I would like to see Duke confronting an Immortal who wouldn't understand all the fuss about slavery and civil rights. A being so old that for him, all those institutions which seems ingrained in today's life in the West (nation-states, democracy, etc.) would be strange novelties, possibly the quizzical behaviour of unruly children.

I really think that D.C. isn't making the best use of its Immortals, be they Vandal, Ra's or the Immortal Men and their houses. They should devote more time to display how those beings are, pasted a certain point, utterly unrelatable to mortals, with Duke thus facing what may wait for him in the future. Or he could face an Immortal who did champion what was seen as progressive positions on social issues in the past, be it the end of slavery, or something older, only to now appears set in his ways and unable to accept that the world still has to change.

It could be interesting if done right.

Once again, great ideas! So much they could do with Duke as a focal counterpoint due to his unique circumstances.

And I concur that most of DC's Immortal and long lived characters are... used in very narrow fashions. Usually, it's them being unambiguously villainous in a conceited way. Not much in variation and not much in nuance either (and if there is, it doesn't last past whoever wrote them at that point).

I really wish Immortal Men wasn't cancelled and that they would have let the book be so it could play out as it was. So much loss potential there.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

https://archiveofourown.org/works/15933332

Thought it was a good read on Duke.