Marvel pulls j. Scott Campbell' Riri William Iron Man cover

[ian0delond]

There's a difference between a real life teenager posing for this pic of her own free will and a fictional character with no agency being drawn by a man in his 40s.

Men in their 40s should just stop drawing women ?

[Of Atlantis]

Personally, I don't see what's sexualized about this cover, but obviously some people feel strong enough about it to say something. All I see is a sassy teenager who doesn't look 15. I feel sexualized is too strong a word.

I'm just surprised Marvel pulled this as fast as they did. With Manara's cover, it took a while, and was more justified imo. This was almost instantaneous at what seems like a fraction of the criticism for a cover, that in my opinion, doesn't warrant as bad a reaction. This kind of stuff tends to grab Marvel by the balls now. A part of me feels bad that some artists are missing out on work for being too "risque" because Tumblr user CisScumMustDie123 can't handle how they draw hips. This reaction could be a changing of the times, which I understand completely, but sometimes it feels like self victimizing mob mentality.

I feel like few people actually feel passionate about it, and many are just complaining for the sake of it. It's pretty evident when you look at how badly people are harassing Campbell on social media right now. There's a right way and a wrong way to approach stuff like this.

[Agent Z]

Men in their 40s should just stop drawing women ?

Not even remotely what I said.

[Sighphi]

I think some people objected to the low cut of Ririi's trousers and how much of her abdomen was visible with her crop top. The tilt of her hips and the look of attitude on her face probably didn't help. Like most things involving female comic book characters, some folks weren't offended while others deeply were.

All elements present in the original cover.
None of the critiques have any ground to stand on because there should've been some outrage event a while back.

Yep, her boobs got bigger, her shirt got tighter, instead of being in outer wear/track pants, it looks like she was wearing leggings that emphasized the triangle shape of her bits. Her hand was in a "talk to the hand" stereotypical black female pose, her face looks more mature, and her skin was lightened.

There are teens who dress sexually, there are teens who have big boobs and hips, no one is saying they're not out there, but you shouldn't be adding to something that isn't there ie don't draw her as having C-cups when she clearly has A-cups.

Look at the comparison above, it's the same thing.

Her boobs didnt get bigger you are seeing her from an angle. And until we see an actual stat on her boobs you should stop throwing cups as actual facts. I actually dont read IM so has the comic stated her breast cups?

"Talk to the hand" is the standard Iron Man gauntlet repulsor blast pose. I have read IM enough to see this. Plus it's seen in the other variant of this cover.





You guys are pulling out stuff out of nowhere.

Black females are sexualized at a young age, and society has a way of referring to black kids/teens as men and women instead of boys and girls, children, teens, etc as if they can't be looked at as vulnerable.

By who? The music industry to retired Disney actresses? That's the only place where teenagers end up like this.

It wasnt by TV. There are endless sitcoms where there are black teenagers that are "normal".

In any case this is Marvel's fault for hiring this dude, and Campbell's fault for not knowing how to draw female characters differently.

This seems to be the real argument, here.

People are attacking artist for the other work they do.

[BlkGldBlu]

What a Brave new P.C. world we live in.
"I'll have the teenage superhero/sidekick.. but make mines 18. Don't want to fill up on bread&shame"

[Sighphi]

Did you do research into how black female bodies get sexualized from a young age? Did you look into the much larger cultural issues that this ties into? Let me ask you this: Did you look at the opinions of black women? If you didn't - if you didn't look at what was said by @MizCaramelVixen and @neekaneeks and @Steph_I_Will and @BlackGirlNerds, or any of the other black women criticizing the cover? Then no, you did not do any research.

Sorry, but my research doesnt not include twitter accounts that are perpetually offended.
People flipping out over the slightest thing because it was not done exactly like they wanted is not proper information by far.

She's not black, but this Jennifer de Guzman article also does a pretty good job summing things up.

Ok, let me read this.

To start they use the original cover but they edited so the only thing you can see is from the upper torso to the head..... i wonder why.

Riri is fifteen years old. The cocked hip, the strangely elongated exposed torso, and the ridiculously low-low-rise pants (Are they leggings? Are they jeans? Who knows.) that, frankly, are almost exposing her pubic area—this is just not the way anyone should be depicting a young teenager.

Yet again another person pointing out stuff that appear in the original. Where was the article for the original? Why is this happening now to a cover that is going to be seen by less people than the original?

This? This is flat. Boring. Poorly drawn. (That hand, though! No, not that one, the other one. Well, I guess that one, too.)

Again, original cover and some one discussing the standard repulsor hand design that is decades old.

Now, I’m not saying publishers should discriminate based on age, but they should choose artists who produce images that match the tone of the book.

Im not saying discriminate.... but discriminate.

And that’s the biggest problem, really. Publishers try to serve two gods. They want to appeal to a new, young audience, but covers like this one push that audience away.

Midtown Comic Exclusive. This is nothing but 100% collector cover. It's available from one website/comic store.

Sorry but this article is as empty as most of the replies seen here.
Somehow the stuff is wrong months after it was already shown.

It was months ago, and the criticism I saw was on Twitter, and I'm lazy, so no.

pretty sure twitter has a search function.

But honestly, the main cover is bad for making Riri look way older than she should be, too. Riri is supposed to be based on Skai Jackson. Take a look at her. Now take a look at how Riri consistently gets drawn on covers. Riri looks a solid decade older than Skai. Because far too many comic artists simply do not give a single, solitary shit what actual teens actually look like, and just draw adult women. If it's a teen black girl? Well, the fact that a lot of news reports have referred to her as a black "woman" tells you a lot. As has been pointed out by a lot of black women over the past couple days, black girls get their bodies sexualized from a very young age. And that is the broader context of the Riri cover controversy.

where did you get the info that its supposed to be Skai Jackson?
What report refere to her as a black woman?

As I've said before: There is always a broader context over any controversy. If you're not sure why people are upset about something, then it's because you've been privileged enough not to have been made aware of it before. So listen to what people are actually saying, without just assuming they're overly-sensitive idiots.

The pose, the face, the clothes.By the way, the clothes are a part of it, but they are by no means the biggest part. The face is probably the biggest objection, because she does not have the face of a 15-year-old. And the body a close second. Because that is very much a cheesecake pose. The hips cocked waaaay to the side and back, and the creepily-elongated torso. It's classic cheesecake. It's how Campbell draws every woman he has ever drawn in his career. He draws her in the same cheesecake manner he draws all his women. (Also, her skin is pretty light, compared to how she's usually coloured.)

I am listening. But people are complaining about elements that existed before and they seem to have no knowledge of the subject which gives their argument little weight.

"Talk to the hand" shows that they have no Iron Man knowledge. Talking about the pose shows that the original cover was not an issue until they decide to pounce because it was the interesting to do this week.

discussions come from two sides talking, not one side coming in unopposed.

No, the issue is the sexualization of a teenage black girl. An add-on to that is the fact that Marvel's not hiring black women to do variant covers for a comic about a black girl.Are any of the variant covers going to be by black women? I'm sincerely asking: Has there been a single variant cover announced for Invincible Iron Man that will be drawn by a black woman? Because if Marvel is hoping to reach black girls with this character, it feels pretty goddamn stupid to not have any black women doing variant covers. They couldn't ask Brittney Williams or Natacha Bustos? Nah, J. Scott Campbell is totally the way to get attention of black girls. Definitely.

And this is one of the reason people come from the other side.

This is not simply, "oh that cover is bad" you are coming in with an attack from every angle to push your stuff. This is why there are some people that dont care for your arguments. So now a black woman needs to draw a black character... why?

If you want more diversity in creators then push that but push it in it's own conversation that doesnt involve pooping on an artist and getting his work taken down.

[ian0delond]

Not even remotely what I said.

help me because i really don't get it.

[bubibartra]

cover's pretty tame for a comic not printed in the middle east. but that's not a 15 year old's body. weird.

lourdes leon at 15 years old

http://entretenimiento.starmedia.com...-Le%C3%B3n.jpg

I had a lot of chest and was highly developed at 15, many girls of 15 are voluptuous bodies

the girls of 15 may not have chest because it is politically incorrect?

[CrimsonEchidna]

My stance is Covers, and even Variant Covers, should aim to match the tone and audience of the book. These teen heroes that Marvel is going out of their way to market to a young audience should not be getting Pin-Up Covers. You can make as many arguments as you want about how teenage females dress up in real life, it doesn't matter.

[Wulf1984]

If the offended people didn't like the cover then they shouldn't buy it. I get annoyed with the Twitter crowd deciding what everyone should want.

[Mr Reader]

There's a difference between a real life teenager posing for this pic of her own free will and a fictional character with no agency being drawn by a man in his 40s.

It's one thing for real life American hero to join a neo nazi organization, it's another for a fictional American hero with no agency to be written that way by a writer

It's one thing for a businessman to become an alcoholic it's another for a fictional businessman with no agency to be written that way by a writer

It's one thing for a bunch of adult women known for dressing flashy and sexy to all start wearing the same frumpy jumpsuits, it's another for a bunch of fictional women with no agency to be drawn that that way.

See how stupid this all sounds after awhile

[Smoov-E]

I love these arguments, those not offended go out of their way to be as equally annoying as the people they're complaining about.

Best thing to come out of this is the grown men admitting to being creepers by sayin "teens at the mall dress way skimpy then that" and it's many variations.

Comic fans so use to hyper sexualization can't even see why someone would be offended by something

[Dr Quinch]

This seems to be the real argument, here.

People are attacking artist for the other work they do.

Pretty much. It's the same thing that happened with the Frank Cho Wonder Woman covers.

It would seem there are certain people who just don't want male cheesecake artists working in mainstream superhero comics even when they make an effort to tone down their stuff.

[TooFlyToFail]

It's Marvel's fault for asking a pin-up artist to draw a 15 yo. It's like asking Dedato to not draw everyone with the same body. It was a failed effort from the start, yo.

[Wulf1984]

It's Marvel's fault for asking a pin-up artist to draw a 15 yo. It's like asking Dedato to not draw everyone with the same body. It was a failed effort from the start, yo.

I think it's Marvel's fault for underestimating how easily people can get offended nowadays. It's like people look for things to get offended by.