Favorite Young X men / Next generation X men Team?

[Herowatcher]

Still the best...The New Mutants.
Add Boom Boom & Rictor and this group is unbeatable.

[Confuzzled]

The Hellions weren't so much bullies as they were the natural antagonists to the New-Mutants squad. Since for the most part the New-Mutants squad was also the audience view point squad, any group that was directly competing against them, or challenging them, could easily be interpreted negatively. The Hellions were the 'them' compared to the New-Mutants squads 'us' in the whole us vs them equation. It's super easy to just look at the squad on the surface and write them off. It would be a mistake, but it's an easy one to make.

Yet, looking at their actions in the main line New X-Men books, or their even further expanded characters in their own mini-series, you can clearly see that they are simply another group of kids trying their best to do right by their friends and make their way in the world... and once you get down to the nitty-gritty and really compare the actions and interactions of the New-Mutants and the Hellions, it's the Hellions that actually come out the shinier of the two.

They're the better preforming squad, they are more inclusive, more cohesive, more loyal to one another. The individuals members have depth and growth, as do the inter-squad relationships. There is genuine believable friendship and trust there. I don't know if it was intentional or just a happy accident, but they managed to turn the 'Slytherin' of the school into the more likeable team and were smart enough to run with it once it became apparent.

Plus the Hellions had Mercury and that automagically makes them the best

And as usual I'm left wondering what could have been if the book had focused on the Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs instead.

[Anduinel]

Sill in mourning for Wolf Cub and DJ.

[Adam-X]

They weren't an X-team and the series really had no relevance to the X-world. Its understandable why the X-terminators are included (being an X-factor trainee group which went on to merge with the New Mutants) and why Fallen Angels are excluded

Yes, but several of the core members of the Fallen Angels happen due to a result of something that happens in New Mutants. So I am not sure why that's too different than X-Terminators?

[Havok83]

Yes, but several of the core members of the Fallen Angels happen due to a result of something that happens in New Mutants. So I am not sure why that's too different than X-Terminators?

X-factor werent calling themselves X-men but thats what they were and what they represented as they took on kids to train under Xavier's dream. X-terminators were a direct spinoff and their only story in their mini was an X-men crossover tie-in. I dont see how anyone could argue against them as a junior X-men team. They are just as qualified as the New Mutants, Gen X, New X-men, etc... The only difference is they didnt have their own ongoing but their adventures, relationships and training were seen for years in the pages of X-factor

Fallen Angels? Their connection to the X-universe is tangential at best. Despite having some X-characters in it, that story really has nothing to do with X-men nor did it tie into anything bigger in the X-world or heavily rely on mutant themes. They had no affiliation with the X-men and were just a hodge podge bunch of random characters thrown together for a mini-series. They are no more an X-team than New Warriors v4 with Jubilee and Chamber

[Fordel]

And as usual I'm left wondering what could have been if the book had focused on the Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs instead.

Honestly, probably a bit boring . Like, there's a reason the Harry Potter books focus on the Slytherin vs Gryffindor. These stories thrive on conflict and the two middling and rational houses aren't going to generate much of it. I'd be a fun side story, something to help expand and solidify the setting as a whole... but it would lack as the main driver of the plot.

[Confuzzled]

Sill in mourning for Wolf Cub and DJ.

Marvel Motto in the 00's: Because it's not just enough to kill hope and potential for mutants through M-Day, but we need to spill blood of their young as well!

Honestly, probably a bit boring . Like, there's a reason the Harry Potter books focus on the Slytherin vs Gryffindor. These stories thrive on conflict and the two middling and rational houses aren't going to generate much of it. I'd be a fun side story, something to help expand and solidify the setting as a whole... but it would lack as the main driver of the plot.

Explains why my favorite Houses in GoT/ASoIaF are Tyrells, Baratheons, Martells etc. I really liked Scott's idea of creating the different uniformed squads led by different alumni advisors because as I said in the Gen X RessurXion thread, it is a concept that lends itself brilliantly to juggling huge casts like in NXM. So always felt it was a missed opportunity to not feature the other squads more often in Academy X.

[Fordel]

Well again, there's nothing to really 'feature' is the thing with the side squads. No one makes the highschool teen drama about the kid who has a healthy social life and a B+ average. It's always about the social pariah, or the underdog, or the alpha-jock or the prom queen. The extremes of either end of the scale.

Like continuing the GoT example, lets look at why House Tyrell isn't a primary focus. The house is relatively stable, self sufficient, secure with equal measures of military, economic and political might. All of this makes them strong and formidable, but rather dull. Outside of Lady Olenna's overwhelming charisma and Margaery's plunging neckline, the house doesn't DO much. Not when Starks are forming new kingdoms and Lannisters are tearing down old ones with ruthlessness and ambition. Lady Olenna says it herself : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFZen-XO5II

"Roses are boring dear"

Like don't get me wrong, it's important to have all these other houses to flesh out the world and you can have great little side stories about them, or fantastic character from within them... but as a primary driving force to the narrative, they don't have 'enough' to carry the story forward.

[Confuzzled]

Well again, there's nothing to really 'feature' is the thing with the side squads. No one makes the highschool teen drama about the kid who has a healthy social life and a B+ average. It's always about the social pariah, or the underdog, or the alpha-jock or the prom queen. The extremes of either end of the scale.

Like continuing the GoT example, lets look at why House Tyrell isn't a primary focus. The house is relatively stable, self sufficient, secure with equal measures of military, economic and political might. All of this makes them strong and formidable, but rather dull. Outside of Lady Olenna's overwhelming charisma and Margaery's plunging neckline, the house doesn't DO much. Not when Starks are forming new kingdoms and Lannisters are tearing down old ones with ruthlessness and ambition. Lady Olenna says it herself : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFZen-XO5II

"Roses are boring dear"

Like don't get me wrong, it's important to have all these other houses to flesh out the world and you can have great little side stories about them, or fantastic character from within them... but as a primary driving force to the narrative, they don't have 'enough' to carry the story forward.

Some roles like "social pariah" aren't cemented in eternity. Movies like Easy A feature relatively "average" and popular kids messing up and then becoming the pariahs. And then there are flicks like Charlie Bartlett with the same kind of kids just navigating teenhood and getting a taste of the extremes now and again. If we consider college movies, Pitch Perfect's Bardem Bellas may have been underdogs in their acapella competitions, but the individual members were all pretty well-adjusted, if quirky, in their outside lives.

Also, Academy X's New Mutants and Hellions didn't fill ALL of those tropes. Arguably, Alpha Squadron and/or Paragorns were the bigger underdogs, individual characters like Trance, Cuckoos or Pixie may be more viable candidates for HBIC than any one female member on either NM or Hellions. It's not like these characters and squads didn't have interesting stories to be told, or that they didn't bring anything of interest to the table.

Also, regarding House Tyrell, I think you may have misinterpreted what they were meant to be about. Your understanding of them is the impression they deliberately tried to push in universe so that their rivals would underestimate them and not obstruct their rise to power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BSAu7Px-lY But mountains run dry of gold, Winter yields to spring, but the Rose blooms once more.

[Sutekh]

I really liked Scott's idea of creating the different uniformed squads led by different alumni advisors because as I said in the Gen X RessurXion thread, it is a concept that lends itself brilliantly to juggling huge casts like in NXM. So always felt it was a missed opportunity to not feature the other squads more often in Academy X.

Agreed. Something really cool was built up that future creators could have run with, instead the next team along kind of burned it all down, instead. I'm always impressed by creators who create, and writers of serial properties (like TV shows or comic books) who intentionally leave some toys behind that future writers can play with impress me with their team spirit and generosity. Creators who come along and tear stuff down (instead of just showing some restraint and not using the elements they don't want to use, saving them for the next writer in the chain to pick up, if they want to) do not impress me, because it comes across as mean-spirited. "I didn't write this, therefore I'm going to blow it all up, or deconstruct it into unlikability, because I'm so jealous that my own creations aren't as popular as this character from the sixties."

Not only were a ton of interesting minor mutants introduced, making them finally feel more like an actual new race sharing the planet, instead of another group of super-folk no more populous or relevant than the Avengers, characters like Indra or Gentle or Loa or Bling! or Wind-Dancer that I'd have loved to see more of, but the idea of the original New Mutants and X-Men serving as faculty and advisors to different groups promised the potential to see old favorites again, in a more grown-up teacher role, no longer quite so much the awkward kids (or, in Northstar's case, defensive jerk) they used to be, which was some much-anticipated character growth and development for some previous generations of mutants that had been more or less side-lined.

Instead, all that potential squandered.

[Ambaryerno]

Agreed. Something really cool was built up that future creators could have run with, instead the next team along kind of burned it all down, instead. I'm always impressed by creators who create, and writers of serial properties (like TV shows or comic books) who intentionally leave some toys behind that future writers can play with impress me with their team spirit and generosity. Creators who come along and tear stuff down (instead of just showing some restraint and not using the elements they don't want to use, saving them for the next writer in the chain to pick up, if they want to) do not impress me, because it comes across as mean-spirited. "I didn't write this, therefore I'm going to blow it all up, or deconstruct it into unlikability, because I'm so jealous that my own creations aren't as popular as this character from the sixties."

Not only were a ton of interesting minor mutants introduced, making them finally feel more like an actual new race sharing the planet, instead of another group of super-folk no more populous or relevant than the Avengers, characters like Indra or Gentle or Loa or Bling! or Wind-Dancer that I'd have loved to see more of, but the idea of the original New Mutants and X-Men serving as faculty and advisors to different groups promised the potential to see old favorites again, in a more grown-up teacher role, no longer quite so much the awkward kids (or, in Northstar's case, defensive jerk) they used to be, which was some much-anticipated character growth and development for some previous generations of mutants that had been more or less side-lined.

Instead, all that potential squandered.

I think you're being unfair to Kyle and Yost. There was an editorial mandate behind it (Quesada didn't like mutants escaping their status quo, so ordered No More Mutants) so they were only doing what they were directed to. So they may not have had any desire to dismantle the squads concept, but had to go with it anyway because that was the direction the X-line was taking.

[Anduinel]

I think you're being unfair to Kyle and Yost. There was an editorial mandate behind it (Quesada didn't like mutants escaping their status quo, so ordered No More Mutants) so they were only doing what they were directed to. So they may not have had any desire to dismantle the squads concept, but had to go with it anyway because that was the direction the X-line was taking.

I half-agree. Kyle and Yost were told to reduce the cast of the book in the aftermath of M-Day. (Which still makes me roll my eyes given that the main reason it was as crowded as it was was because the previous writers were told they had to incorporate characters introduced by Morrison, Austen, Claremont, Whedon, etc.) But they had the choice of whether to pack the kids off or kill them, and they chose the latter. They might not have been fully responsible for dismantling the squad structure, but they did choose to take a lot of the characters permanently out of circulation and turf Dani. But, considering how few favors they did Emma's character, Dani might have dodged a bullet there.

[Fordel]

Some roles like "social pariah" aren't cemented in eternity. Movies like Easy A feature relatively "average" and popular kids messing up and then becoming the pariahs. And then there are flicks like Charlie Bartlett with the same kind of kids just navigating teenhood and getting a taste of the extremes now and again. If we consider college movies, Pitch Perfect's Bardem Bellas may have been underdogs in their acapella competitions, but the individual members were all pretty well-adjusted, if quirky, in their outside lives.

Also, Academy X's New Mutants and Hellions didn't fill ALL of those tropes. Arguably, Alpha Squadron and/or Paragorns were the bigger underdogs, individual characters like Trance, Cuckoos or Pixie may be more viable candidates for HBIC than any one female member on either NM or Hellions. It's not like these characters and squads didn't have interesting stories to be told, or that they didn't bring anything of interest to the table.

Also, regarding House Tyrell, I think you may have misinterpreted what they were meant to be about. Your understanding of them is the impression they deliberately tried to push in universe so that their rivals would underestimate them and not obstruct their rise to power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BSAu7Px-lY But mountains run dry of gold, Winter yields to spring, but the Rose blooms once more.

Until winter comes back at least, then the roses die off like everything else hehe :P

Even in that history lesson, its showing what I am talking about. No one is going to make a series about the house that did the sensible and reasonable thing to save their own necks and eventually prosper. The story would be about the dudes riding the dragons conquering, or the dudes fighting against them in defiance. Not the dudes who decided to jump on the band wagon to avoid it all. I'm not saying what they are doing is ineffective, its clearly working for them as they are easily one of the most powerful houses. I'm saying it makes for a boring story. No one but historians want to read about the peace and house Tyrell is all about avoiding conflict, protecting their lands and keeping the peace.

Imagine of the GoT show was from the Tyrell perspective right from the start. What would it even be about? Watching Margery get sold off to each potential king as they come along? What was house Tyrell doing while the Baratheons were imploding, Lannister were scheming and Starks were revolting? Waiting to see who would be most likely to come out on top and ride along with them. You can't make a story be about the waiters, not while there are doers out there doing stuff. Well you CAN, it just won't be very good

[Confuzzled]

Until winter comes back at least, then the roses die off like everything else hehe :P

Even in that history lesson, its showing what I am talking about. No one is going to make a series about the house that did the sensible and reasonable thing to save their own necks and eventually prosper. The story would be about the dudes riding the dragons conquering, or the dudes fighting against them in defiance. Not the dudes who decided to jump on the band wagon to avoid it all. I'm not saying what they are doing is ineffective, its clearly working for them as they are easily one of the most powerful houses. I'm saying it makes for a boring story. No one but historians want to read about the peace and house Tyrell is all about avoiding conflict, protecting their lands and keeping the peace.

Imagine of the GoT show was from the Tyrell perspective right from the start. What would it even be about? Watching Margery get sold off to each potential king as they come along? What was house Tyrell doing while the Baratheons were imploding, Lannister were scheming and Starks were revolting? Waiting to see who would be most likely to come out on top and ride along with them. You can't make a story be about the waiters, not while there are doers out there doing stuff. Well you CAN, it just won't be very good

I would have welcomed Margaery POV chapters a lot as it would have shed some light on an intelligent young woman hailing from an incredibly ambitious family being forced/prepared to marry a man who had no sexual interest in her, then a psychopath teenager, and finally his underaged little brother. And how she tried to tackle the various disparate elements in court like Sansa, Cersei, relationship with the common folk that she showed a knack for etc. After all, there have been so many books and movies on Anne Boleyn and her family who actually were involved in a lot less intrigue and outrageousness than the Tyrells.

Similarly, the Alpha Squadrons, Paragons, Corsairs etc. didn't have to be the only POV squads in Academy X. You could have your NM/Hellions conflict but you could also have shown what those squads were upto, how they dealt with being young mutants, how they adapted to the NM/Hellion rivalry, contingency situations where they had to work as teams and apply their training against external threats who meant real harm etc. After Academy X and Kyost NXM wrapped, it's most of the Alpha Squadron, Paragon and Corsair members who really shone and increasingly began to feature in books more than their NM/Hellion counterparts, so it's not like these characters couldn't offer anything beyond being relegated to cutesy wallpaper.

[Fordel]

As I've said before, they could be side stories (and they did have minor side bars sometimes). But like lets say, when Wither was taken into custody by the FBI, when the Hellions were going to bust him out and the New-Mutant Squad were off to stop the Hellions. What were they going to do, stop and show the other squads doing their homework back on campus?

/shrug