Could Apocalypse be taken in a more tragic angle?

[LordTrump]

No, not a Geoff Johns esque, "my family died", kinda thing, but think about it. He thought that the most powerful mutants would rule the world, but instead it's been taken over by "slaves".

It's like imagine preparing your estate for your most gifted children, only to return and see it being run into the ground by the janitor that you should have fired for always being late.

Surely more can be done with this angle to make Apocalypse more than just a youthful indiscretion of Darkseid and Ares.

[somacula]

In X men forever and loise simonson X factor apocalypse gives the vibe that he wants humans to evolve at his level in order to face Gods as equals. Further expanded in X factor forever were he wants to use baby Nathan to protect the earth from the Celestial host proving that the mutant race is viable... The best you can do is make apocalypse an analogue of God of the old testament, constantly tests his children because he wants them to be strong, wants was best for them and occasionally protects them or gives them power

[origami]

Apocalypse's original shtick is that of survival of the fittest.

If humans manage to remain in charge of the world despite the presence of much more powerful mutants, doesn't this make humans the fittest?

From this POV, he has no reason to bitch about "slaves" taking over the world. What he does have, are reasons to exterminate his fellow mutants for being proven to be less fit to survive when compared with mere humans.

[WhySoFuriousGeorge]

What the hell is "tragic" about Apocalypse? I should feel sympathy for him because his Darwinist plans have been stymied by M-Day and other extinction-level events? LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

[ImprobableQuestion]

No, he's pretty unspeakable. You could definitely do some real tragedy with Archangel though.

[JudicatorPrime]

Apocalypse's original shtick is that of survival of the fittest.

If humans manage to remain in charge of the world despite the presence of much more powerful mutants, doesn't this make humans the fittest?

From this POV, he has no reason to bitch about "slaves" taking over the world. What he does have, are reasons to exterminate his fellow mutants for being proven to be less fit to survive when compared with mere humans.

Agreed. Apocalypse came into his power at a time when there were only the Eternals, Deviants, Atlanteans, a Sorceror Supreme, and the Gods to stop him. That there are so many "weaker" humans walking the Earth is his fault. Apocalypse doesn't need to be more tragic. He needs to be more genocidal. Vast swathes of the human strain that walk or crawl the Earth should be either dead or decimated. I don't want Apocalypse tragic. I want him cold and calculating, a Darwinian psychopath. But like Thanos, everyone wants to give these guys a sympathetic facet; a sob story. Sometimes evil is inexplicable and unapologetic.

[LordTrump]

What the hell is "tragic" about Apocalypse? I should feel sympathy for him because his Darwinist plans have been stymied by M-Day and other extinction-level events? LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Maybe not tragic so much as.....understandable. Like, imagine the world of Harrison Bergeron, where she be highest achievers are handicapped so as not to offend or upset the world of those "lesser". That's basically what Apocalypse sees, especially since humans once "knew their place" and worshipped the likes of him. Not a "my parents died" kind of tragedy, but you see where he's coming from, and it's more than just "taste my evil doom of dark deathness, Cable!!!"

[donpricetag]

I never thought when Apocalypse says "Survival of the fittest" he meant "only mutants". I think he means that in the plainest of ways. For instance, someone doesnt have to be able to shatter a planet to be considered fit. Who here doesn't think Batman can't take out an X-Man? What does he think Captain America? I'd understand what he would feel about someone like Tony Stark. Put him in a empty room with Wolverine, he's dog meat. What if an organization like the Purifiers decided to embrace that way of thinking. Adopt it and push their members to that level, ultimately looking at Apocalypse more like a profit, which expands him out of the "only mutants" vein to simply "survival of the fittest". I guess that's how pseudo-religions are birthed.

[WhySoFuriousGeorge]

Maybe not tragic so much as.....understandable. Like, imagine the world of Harrison Bergeron, where she be highest achievers are handicapped so as not to offend or upset the world of those "lesser". That's basically what Apocalypse sees, especially since humans once "knew their place" and worshipped the likes of him. Not a "my parents died" kind of tragedy, but you see where he's coming from, and it's more than just "taste my evil doom of dark deathness, Cable!!!"

Oh, I get where you're coming from, I just don't think "tragic" is the word I'd choose to use here. Well, I'm sure it's tragic for him, LOL. And the situation is tragic from a Darwinist POV, because it would be like Neanderthals thriving while Cro-Magnon barely scrapes by. Honestly, though, I do see where you're coming from and I think it's a character beat that should be played for En Sabah Nur. If memory serves, they TRIED to do so before with that whole Blood of Apocalypse storyline, but the less said about that hot mess, the better.

[JudicatorPrime]

For all of his power, the argument can be made that Apocalypse is avoiding his own "survival of the fittest" test. Has he ever fought Sentry/Void, World Breaker Hulk, Starbrand and others who would likely end him? Sure, the X-men are plenty powerful, but outside of Phoenix, they're mostly below him in class/rank. He's basically bullying lessers for a living.

[All-New Valar Stercus NOW.1]

Maybe he should team up with Mojo and explore the tragedy of being such a **** character.

[LordLeviathan]

No, not a Geoff Johns esque, "my family died", kinda thing, but think about it. He thought that the most powerful mutants would rule the world, but instead it's been taken over by "slaves".

It's like imagine preparing your estate for your most gifted children, only to return and see it being run into the ground by the janitor that you should have fired for always being late.

Surely more can be done with this angle to make Apocalypse more than just a youthful indiscretion of Darkseid and Ares.

In my eyes Apocalypse never cares about ruling.
IMHO the great tragedy( actually that might the wrong word) of apocalypse is that that he's marvels greastest unsung heroes. he cast down Kang, stopped Dracula, most certainly butted heads with Azazel and Selene helped bringing down Onslought. yep the ruthless darvinistic ********* saved countless times the world for serveral millenia
Not to mention that compared to his contemporaries of ancient egypt hes actually quite progessive

[LordTrump]

For all of his power, the argument can be made that Apocalypse is avoiding his own "survival of the fittest" test. Has he ever fought Sentry/Void, World Breaker Hulk, Starbrand and others who would likely end him? Sure, the X-men are plenty powerful, but outside of Phoenix, they're mostly below him in class/rank. He's basically bullying lessers for a living.

More reason for the xmen to be on their own

[LordLeviathan]

For all of his power, the argument can be made that Apocalypse is avoiding his own "survival of the fittest" test. Has he ever fought Sentry/Void, World Breaker Hulk, Starbrand and others who would likely end him? Sure, the X-men are plenty powerful, but outside of Phoenix, they're mostly below him in class/rank. He's basically bullying lessers for a living.

En Sabah Nur fought Kang, Onsalught and Dracula and seperate ocasions and WON

[JudicatorPrime]

En Sabah Nur fought Kang, Onsalught and Dracula and seperate ocasions and WON

Onslaught might be a feat, although in the bigger scheme of things it isn't on the same scale as Molecule Man, Sentry/Void and others. I never considered Kang and Dracula in the same top end class, although as with Doc Doom, writers tend to take their liberties with overbuilding them to be the most dangerous or most powerful threats in the universe.