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  1. #166
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    he is still not depicted as a POC character.
    This is a myopic view of the concept of race.

    Race is defined as "the classification of humans into groups based on physical traits, ancestry, genetics or social relations, or the relations between them. First used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations, by the 17th century race began to refer to physical (i.e. phenotypical) traits. The term was often used in a general biological taxonomic sense, starting from the 19th century, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype."

    Superman and and Jon fall under the category of a separate race by way of physical/phenotypical traits. Phenotypical meaning an organism's observable characteristics or traits, such as its morphology, development, biochemical or physiological properties, phenology, behavior, and products of behavior. In Superman and Jon's case it's biochemical traits, thus they are of another race.


    POCs are divided by society anyway no matter what kind of background you come from. I can't put on a pair of glasses that I don't actually need to hide I'm African American.
    Sure, but then there are people out here who are very much of direct African linage yet they don't have traditional African phenotypical characteristics. Ever heard of Pete Wentz from Fall Out Boy? His granddad is Jamaican. He straightens his hair (nothing wrong with that) and he very much passes for just straight up white. How about Anatole Broyard? He was in fact born to light-skinned black parents, and raised in a predominantly black Brooklyn neighborhood. He looks typically white. What about Wentworth Miller (currently playing Captain Cold on Flash and Legends of Tomorrow). He's mixed with African-American, Jamaican, Jewish, and Cherokee. Michael Fosberg's biological dad is black.

    Mixed race people who all pass for white. Doesn't make them any less mixed race. Jon and Superman are aliens that pass for white humans.


    Superman is an Alien....a different being from a different planet...who happens to look human and caucasian that's how he is able to function in this world.
    If you accept that he only happens to look human and caucasian then you must realize that his other phenotypical characteristics oppose the idea of him simply being a caucasian human. Superman and Jon are totally separate species.

  2. #167
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    This is getting stupos,kal and Jon are plain old white folk until they come out and do the superhero thing,bringing obvious attention to theirself.

    Some on here trying to make it more than are stretching shit to get their points across.

    Jon will get hated by a guy when he is "playing hero",but can turn the corner and totally blend in,that is just a FACT.

    Now stop with this crap,jeez get a grip.

  3. #168
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    This is getting stupos,kal and Jon are plain old white folk until they come out and do the superhero thing,bringing obvious attention to theirself.

    Some on here trying to make it more than are stretching shit to get their points across.

    Jon will get hated by a guy when he is "playing hero",but can turn the corner and totally blend in,that is just a FACT.

    Now stop with this crap,jeez get a grip.
    Kal-El and Jon are aliens (and half alien) that pass for white. Just like there are people in real life that are of mixed race but pass for white (Wentworth Miller, Pete Wentz from Fall Out Boy, and Michael Fosberg). Just like these real life people Jon and Kal simply got lucky that their outward physical appearance resembles that of a white person.

    I'm not stretching anything. He literally is an alien that only happens to look white. I'm not arguing that he he doesn't look white to everyone on the planet while he's going as Clark Kent. But all that means is that he passes for white.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 11-05-2016 at 02:11 PM.

  4. #169
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    I'd say that he's an alien who happens to look human. The fact that he's white is irrelevant. (And he is white, because “white” is just an appearance; “looks white” and “is white” are synonymous.) Also, Kryptonians haven't been exclusively white since 1971, when the Kryptonian island continent of Vathlo was introduced. More recently, Johns' New Krypton retcon was based off of a cosmopolitan Kryptonian city populated by Kryptonians as ethnically diverse as humans are. I don't think we've seen much of N52's Krypton; but I strongly suspect that it's also being presented ethnically diverse.
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  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Kal-El and Jon are aliens (and half alien) that pass for white. Just like there are people in real life that are of mixed race but pass for white (Wentworth Miller, Pete Wentz from Fall Out Boy, and Michael Fosberg). Just like these real life people Jon and Kal simply got lucky that their outward physical appearance resembles that of a white person.

    I'm not stretching anything. He literally is an alien that only happens to look white. I'm not arguing that he he doesn't look white to everyone on the planet while he's going as Clark Kent. But all that means is that he passes for white.

    The Eradicator is the only time in kons life that anything has came at him in a negative way because of his DNA,and the Eradicator has ultra SUPER DNA senses are something.no one on the street will EVER be able to point Jon out,UNLESS he points it out himself.

    It's not the same as any human having racial issues,not even the ones who can "pass",but nice try

  6. #171
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Also, Kryptonians haven't been exclusively white since 1971, when the Kryptonian island continent of Vathlo was introduced. More recently, Johns' New Krypton retcon was based off of a cosmopolitan Kryptonian city populated by Kryptonians as ethnically diverse as humans are. I don't think we've seen much of N52's Krypton; but I strongly suspect that it's also being presented ethnically diverse.
    But then we don't really know if the same principles of race or Ethnicity apply to Kryptonians. To them race could just be being kissed by the sun's rays in different ways, and nothing more.

    Also as far as I know they have one unified world langue. Where their divide happens is in their class system. For Kryptonians it's what you do that makes the divide and possible discrimination. For instance Kal-El (post-crisis) is half labor guild and half science. He would say that in the same way we give our race or ethnicity.

    So I still maintain that Kal and Jon are white to us and our cultural view, but since race is a construct we've made up, it's not a universal truth (some races aren't even a universal truth on Earth in the real world).

    It's honestly a fascinating debate that speaks volumes on how we describe race from person to person and culture to culture. While it's gotten a bit heated, the debate has remained thoughtful, and I'm ultimately glad I brought it up. I've gained such fascinating insight on the whole thing. It's been a pleasure.

    To everyone: peace.

  7. #172
    Incredible Member 13th Superman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    But then we don't really know if the same principles of race or Ethnicity apply to Kryptonians. To them race could just be being kissed by the sun's rays in different ways, and nothing more.

    Also as far as I know they have one unified world langue. Where their divide happens is in their class system. For Kryptonians it's what you do that makes the divide and possible discrimination. For instance Kal-El (post-crisis) is half labor guild and half science. He would say that in the same way we give our race or ethnicity.

    So I still maintain that Kal and Jon are white to us and our cultural view, but since race is a construct we've made up, it's not a universal truth (some races aren't even a universal truth on Earth in the real world).

    It's honestly a fascinating debate that speaks volumes on how we describe race from person to person and culture to culture. While it's gotten a bit heated, the debate has remained thoughtful, and I'm ultimately glad I brought it up. I've gained such fascinating insight on the whole thing. It's been a pleasure.

    To everyone: peace.
    Now this is beautiful. I'm shocked that these views haven't been delved into more. This is something he could share with Earth. A sharing of ideas and values that represent how we should look each other and what to strive for. This is actually inspirational and something I want to hear more of. This is one of the reasons I appreciate the Legion of Superheroes and Star Trek. It shows that we at some point solve most of our issues and are finally able to achieve fantastic milestones as one group; as one family. The issue of race is a tricky one and one I personally understand from first hand experience. To have a character like Superman address that is tricky as well but what you've written is the best way for him to tackle this. It's one I immediately gravitated to and ultimately felt inspired and hopeful. I can't thank you enough for bringing this up, man!

  8. #173
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13th Superman View Post
    Now this is beautiful. I'm shocked that these views haven't been delved into more. This is something he could share with Earth. A sharing of ideas and values that represent how we should look each other and what to strive for. This is actually inspirational and something I want to hear more of. This is one of the reasons I appreciate the Legion of Superheroes and Star Trek. It shows that we at some point solve most of our issues and are finally able to achieve fantastic milestones as one group; as one family. The issue of race is a tricky one and one I personally understand from first hand experience. To have a character like Superman address that is tricky as well but what you've written is the best way for him to tackle this. It's one I immediately gravitated to and ultimately felt inspired and hopeful. I can't thank you enough for bringing this up, man!
    It was honestly pleasure! Thank you for you kind words.

    The concept fascinates me to no end, and I very much feel it's worth comic creators' time to explore it. A very compelling way to explore the perceptions of race and ethnicity. The foundation actually comes, in part, from World of New Krypton. And I suppose it originates from Morrison's All Star Superman issue #10 because Johns seems to have been greatly inspired by that depiction of Kandorian life. The multi spectrum sun flag is a dead give away/great nod. Granted Johns didn't explore this idea nearly enough during an arc where it wouldn't have been at all out of place. I image if a Kryptonian were to read an Earth history book they'd have the most confused look on their face. "Why do these people divide base on the sun's gifts?"

    It's funny that this conversation started in part with Superman's multiculturalism. This, to me, seems like the perfect way to depict it. In World of New Krypton we are introduced to the concept of the labor guild. Kal links the idea to western slavery (this guild wasn't allowed a seat on the council), but the member of the guild explains that it's tradition and he accepts it. Is Kal wrong for imposing some of his western/Earth views on the situation? Or is what's happening to the labor guild universally wrong? Who's to say? But I love that Kal shows a multicultural standpoint on the situation. He's shown to acknowledge, practice, and even love a large share of Kryptonian culture, but he's unsure of this aspect. I think that's fascinating, and really relatable to someone who is of multicultural heritage.

    I also wonder if Superman's passionate blue collar public service (Superman is essentially a godlike plumber, if we're honest) could also be interpenetrated as his labor guild roots via his mother? It complements his Earth farming upbringing too. Without knowing it Kal could be practicing aspects of labor guild culture without even realizing, because, as we know, everything is relative culture to culture. It's all very fascinating.

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