Am I the only one?

[LoveStar]

Okay claiming that Jon is "mixed race" and somehow he is topical to me is really reaching. Superman hides. Superman looks caucasian and so does Jon. It's not like Jon looks like Raven ie looks obviously not pure human. What genuine trials has Jon to face like any child who is actually of mixed race in the world? Not that much. I would say he's going to school just fine and is he getting getting bullied or judged or having to deal with what real kids of color who have a white parent? These kids don't get to hide their skin or DNA like Jon is in their day to day like. Superman has never come out and owned who he is as Clark other than in Truth.

The day Superdad comes out and says who he is and owns his child is what he is to the world honestly...then and only then can we even compare this aspect. Plus Jon got his "human"side conveniently wiped away. That is another thing that makes me eye roll too. We didn't even get to see Clark and Lois even cope with the anxieties of having a sick child like real parents. Everything is just plunked on a platter for them. Where did they break their backs? You mean the ten years time hop that happened overnight? And they didn't break their backs more than anyone else. If someone says to me the Kents broke their backs I would agree. The narrative is just not there to make me feel these things.

And this is the problem for me with Jon too. He is just conveniently given to them despite even DC saying Clark and Lois could not have kids. Chris Kent could have fit in just as well and as others have said made more sense and Clark would have been able to do the same thing he is doing with Jon.

I agree. This kid hasn't gone through anything but the generic norm of an elementary bully who takes lunch money. Personally, "Mixed race"? No. As hellacre said, he is being depicted as a regular caucasian kid. Superman barely wants to acknowledge his Kryptonian side wanting to live normal as human.

[BeefBourguignon]

That just sounds so dirty.

So thought Fredric Wertham, too.

[Superlad93]

Gotta side with my man Superlad on this one. Jon looks white, but that doesnt mean he isnt multiracial or multicultural.

My wife is Native American. Well, she's something of a mutt, but she's 50% Native with a spattering of other random races. Im Euro-white (mainly Irish/Scottish). Our kids look white (she's hails from some paler tribes than what most people think of when they hear the word "Native") but there are certain elements from her heritage that we celebrate that our kids' friends dont. We're fortunate that it hasn't been an issue (no space racists have stolen our children for example) but I dont think my son's friends have had naming ceremonies or done any of the other stuff.

Much like Jon, my kids are exposed to two different cultures. They dont look multiracial but really, looks are just skin deep aren't they? Now, if the racial divide was more obvious then there would be different things they might have to deal with but at the same time they have a small taste of what it is to have each foot in two different cultures.

In the end, my kids are growing up in a similar way as Jon, except instead of Kryptonian traditions they celebrate Native ones.

On a fun side note, one of the tribes my wife came from is the Cree. So I get to call her a "Cree hybrid" and make Carol Danvers jokes.

Thank you so much for sharing! You're family sounds absolutely beautiful. I wish you and your little Cree empire all the best in the world.

But yeah situations like this a 100% what I'm talking about. You can even look at nations in Africa or Asia for more examples that most Eurocentric points of view wouldn't even consider.

Western cultural and racial views remain largely myopic, in my opinion. It's to the point that when we're talking about a character who is literally half of another species, we don't acknowledge that idea because of his skin color and upbringing. A few 100 years ago you know America used to have something called "the one drop rule." It was that if you had any blood lineage that was anything but white, then you were that other race. This is a real thing that used to happen. But here we are with a kid who is half Kryptonian and somehow he's not of two races.

[Superlad93]

I agree. This kid hasn't gone through anything but the generic norm of an elementary bully who takes lunch money.

So then being being persecuted because of phenotypical characteristics (definition: The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup) beyond his control--by what essentially amounts to a super racist--doesn't count as "going through anything?" What Jon went through was literally the textbook definition of racism.

Also Superman rebuilding his Fortress of Solitude by hand (from memory) and calling it as " taste of Krypton" doesn't sound like a who "barely wants to acknowledge his Kryptonian side." Sounds more like someone who loves and respects that half of himself even while he's in an unfamiliar land.

[hellacre]

Superman is basically passing. Passing was at a time where people could be killed. Hide their real race from persecution due to segregation etc because there were legal issues etc barring them. They did not have the same rights. Superman has the good will and trust of the people of Metropolis usually in his narrative and this Superman as I have said before has the keys to the kingdom. He's been accepted overnight because the writing. Not because he tried and won the hearts of this earth. Because Jurgens and Tomasi has told us readers he is the best Superman and they killed the one who had the more obvious alien vibes .The whole DCU has beings living on earth who don't pass. ie mixed genetics and they are who they are. What Xenophobic bigots? Seriously. Clark White lives a privileged life. So does his kid. This is n't the world of the X-men. No one has put a price on Superman's head. The government are comfortable with this Superman it seems. Only new 52 Superman has the issues of hate and xenophobia really explored in Truth and even then DC back tracked because it doesn't want to deal with those real uncomfortable issues.


I am not Caucasian and I have family of mixed raced myself and Acsended says his family doesn't look it. Well some families can't hide it genetics and culture, okay? They are judged by their skin color and how they dress, speak and how they are perceived. In fact that is very topical right now because of the whole immigrant crisis around the world and these people and their children don't have it easy like Jon and Clark/Lois. I think just saying conveniently Jon is this when he doesn't truly have to face what real immigrant and refugees struggle with is undermining the whole issue for a comic. It gets serious if Tomasi and Jurgens wants to make Lois and Clark own up to the truth of their lives and Clark who he is. Persecution? That is not real persecution. And saying Jon is multicultural is just lip service as far as I am concerned.

And again even if we wanted to say they struggle coming from another earth. Losing it. So did Martian Manhunter and Kara.But they didn't just come to claim the lives of people who have been here before. That is another thing that is why many people are annoyed the whole replacement thing. Wow if my country blew up great to know there is another person like me so I can just take their life and role.

And the kid isn't even human now. Race can just be wiped out. Conveniently. It's too complex and serious a subject in my opinion to be making claims that no writer has delved into properly with Jon. Damien calling him names then teaming up with him is not the same as what kids go through. A kid fitting into the world as a half alien/half human openly with the good and the bad...sure then imo we can make the claim he represents multiculturalism. Not when his father even hides who he is and what he is in his normal life. Even his mother who is a reporter, a supposed watchdog for truth, hides. It's comics some will argue we can't get too real...sure I get that aspect...in fact that is the only aspect I will buy. It's comics. Not these attempts to try to make claims Jon is going through racism and stuff like that. It's why real people can come here and say that he hasn't been through anything because he hasn't. And I am glad the kid hasn't been through much to be honest because no kid should have to face that and it should be a world where he should be allowed to be himself even if he had blue skin and red eyes. Yet the reality is that is not happening in the narrative. How much weight can we put on acceptance/rejection by the world based on hiding and half truths? But such is the Superman lore. It's built on troupes that when examined with a real world lens it...it has holes all over. And it is fiction and I get that.

But let's not please undermine the real topical issues for a comic.

[Superfan90]

No of course you're not alone. All the SM/WW shippers are with you!

[The World]

As I recall didn't Lois originally want to name Jon Jor after Jor-El but Clark shot her down and said "Lois you know I think of myself as human not Kryptonian" and names him Jon after Jon Kent instead?

[Agent Z]

Superman is basically passing. Passing was at a time where people could be killed. Hide their real race from persecution due to segregation etc because there were legal issues etc barring them. They did not have the same rights. Superman has the good will and trust of the people of Metropolis usually in his narrative and this Superman as I have said before has the keys to the kingdom. He's been accepted overnight because the writing. Not because he tried and won the hearts of this earth. Because Jurgens and Tomasi has told us readers he is the best Superman and they killed the one who had the more obvious alien vibes .The whole DCU has beings living on earth who don't pass. ie mixed genetics and they are who they are. What Xenophobic bigots? Seriously. Clark White lives a privileged life. So does his kid. This is n't the world of the X-men. No one has put a price on Superman's head. The government are comfortable with this Superman it seems. Only new 52 Superman has the issues of hate and xenophobia really explored in Truth and even then DC back tracked because it doesn't want to deal with those real uncomfortable issues.


I am not Caucasian and I have family of mixed raced myself and Acsended says his family doesn't look it. Well some families can't hide it genetics and culture, okay? They are judged by their skin color and how they dress, speak and how they are perceived. In fact that is very topical right now because of the whole immigrant crisis around the world and these people and their children don't have it easy like Jon and Clark/Lois. I think just saying conveniently Jon is this when he doesn't truly have to face what real immigrant and refugees struggle with is undermining the whole issue for a comic. It gets serious if Tomasi and Jurgens wants to make Lois and Clark own up to the truth of their lives and Clark who he is. Persecution? That is not real persecution. And saying Jon is multicultural is just lip service as far as I am concerned.

And again even if we wanted to say they struggle coming from another earth. Losing it. So did Martian Manhunter and Kara.But they didn't just come to claim the lives of people who have been here before. That is another thing that is why many people are annoyed the whole replacement thing. Wow if my country blew up great to know there is another person like me so I can just take their life and role.

And the kid isn't even human now. Race can just be wiped out. Conveniently. It's too complex and serious a subject in my opinion to be making claims that no writer has delved into properly with Jon. Damien calling him names then teaming up with him is not the same as what kids go through. A kid fitting into the world as a half alien/half human openly with the good and the bad...sure then imo we can make the claim he represents multiculturalism. Not when his father even hides who he is and what he is in his normal life. Even his mother who is a reporter, a supposed watchdog for truth, hides. It's comics some will argue we can't get too real...sure I get that aspect...in fact that is the only aspect I will buy. It's comics. Not these attempts to try to make claims Jon is going through racism and stuff like that. It's why real people can come here and say that he hasn't been through anything because he hasn't. And I am glad the kid hasn't been through much to be honest because no kid should have to face that and it should be a world where he should be allowed to be himself even if he had blue skin and red eyes. Yet the reality is that is not happening in the narrative. How much weight can we put on acceptance/rejection by the world based on hiding and half truths? But such is the Superman lore. It's built on troupes that when examined with a real world lens it...it has holes all over. And it is fiction and I get that.

But let's not please undermine the real topical issues for a comic.

Nuperman was just as privileged as Superdad was until the identity reveal.

[LoveStar]

So then being being persecuted because of phenotypical characteristics (definition: The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup) beyond his control--by what essentially amounts to a super racist--doesn't count as "going through anything?" What Jon went through was literally the textbook definition of racism.

Also Superman rebuilding his Fortress of Solitude by hand (from memory) and calling it as " taste of Krypton" doesn't sound like a who "barely wants to acknowledge his Kryptonian side." Sounds more like someone who loves and respects that half of himself even while he's in an unfamiliar land.

As being African American and a woman at that, I know first hand about racism and this definitely is not it, even for so called "text book" racism. Jon is very privileged and stays privileged because he hides, just like Superman. Again he is depicted as the average American boy with a farmer dad and his mother writes books. They are just a regular All- American family. The only thing Jon has gone through is again, everyday cliched school bully and catching an attitude because he had to move away from where they were first.

Superman was raised as a regular kid hiding that he is alien. All he has to do was change his persona a little, put on a pair of glasses and/or a cap now to pretend to be a regular caucasian man. Actual POCs do not have that luxury to hide as Superman and Jon does. Superman and Jon are able to go to work and school regularly.

The refugee angle isn't working either because first, he is so easily replacing new52 Superman and everyone all around is easy going accepting of it. Have yet to see real deep mourning from the League and don't expect it now of course but this is all a cop out. The public doesn't have knowledge of the difference just that Superman died now he is alive. Lois is replacing the other Lois and everybody around just thinks she changed her hair.

They have it way too easy. This Superman and his family isn't going through any kind of compelling struggle.

[hellacre]

Nuperman was just as privileged as Superdad was until the identity reveal.

Sure he was. I never said he wasn't. The difference is that New 52 Clark did have it in his narrative he had a reveal and had to actively face xenophobia and so forth. The guy didn't get depowered and hung around the Daily Planet patting himself on the back enjoying normal life. He tried to still be Superman. He was facing threats still and all the prejudice that one could face when outed as someone who hid and was not human. He lost everything, you know for a while, from his job to his home to relationships. Then they took his life. Gave him cancer. Boy, if one wanted to go for subtext what does it say about DC doing that to this younger, different, more alienated version of Superman and what he was and represented? It's not a nice thought for me as a new 52 Superman fan to think DC would sabotage him because they wanted the older guy who represented more conservative ideals from his status quo to his love life etc than the younger, brasher social crusader who had to struggle for his place but who stood up for his ideals. Jurgens and Tomasi's constant patting themselves on the back about this one...we should love him...he is the one deserving...he is the real Superman...oh please. That annoys me no end about what is going on here with DC and their whole approach.

Truth had much potential. Wasted. Wasted the chance to truly look at Superman under a modern lens. Johns couldn't wait to get him back to the DP and back to the same old fashioned troupes.

I own that Clark on the whole hiding his alien-ness made him privileged in his stories. He never face real bullying on he play ground because his mom was alien, discrimination to get an education, job etc. But New 52 Superman still had it harder. From his origins to his coming out as Superman. Morrison's Clark was hunted and tortured. Not embraced and given google eyes by a star reporter off the bat. He had to struggle for his place. And he embraced his gifts and was Superman ie he did exactly the same things as any Superman. He was compassionate and kind, protected the world, took risks, tried to stick to his ideals, he honored his parents, both sets, worked with the League etc. He just happened to be younger and not dating Lois and growing. He was still struggling for acceptance by the world when they killed him. Compare the two versions, one has more privilege than the other and a way easier life.

In the context of this thread what I am saying is DC is the one trying to put one version of Clark up against another. DC Rebirth is the one trying to say look this old guy is the better one. And how they do it? They actually pander to him. No real battle or struggle. Even with his son the battles are minor stuff.

So when anyone to come to say the older guy and his family some how has it hard and facing so much trouble on this earth...no. Not by a long shot.

[Kuwagaton]

There's just no such thing as one Superman being more or less privileged than the other. Neither Clark would hide themselves because they went out without a mask and told the world at large about the roots of Krypton. What you describe, getting by without teasing, is "passing" and it really doesn't reflect negatively on those who need to do it to survive. Yet neither of them had to pass as real people had to pass because of the lack of danger and the "luxury" of truly being a good looking white male. You seem to want it both ways to build a narrative for one Clark over the other, but it's the same background. And then Truth ended with Superman repowered.

You also indicated that it trivialized real world struggles to invoke it in comics, but if you defend either Clark in that regard I think it's disagreeing with that. At large, fantasy fiction is not just escape but presenting those real world issues and having us think about them in allegory. The idea of mutation as homosexuality ranges from strenuous to dubious given a particular story, but that doesn't stop real people from making that connection and having it resonate strongly. It means a lot to people, and I don't see why someone couldn't search for meaning in Superman.

[hellacre]

There's just no such thing as one Superman being more or less privileged than the other. Neither Clark would hide themselves because they went out without a mask and told the world at large about the roots of Krypton. What you describe, getting by without teasing, is "passing" and it really doesn't reflect negatively on those who need to do it to survive. Yet neither of them had to pass as real people had to pass because of the lack of danger and the "luxury" of truly being a good looking white male. You seem to want it both ways to build a narrative for one Clark over the other, but it's the same background.

You also indicated that it trivialized real world struggles to invoke it in comics, but if you defend either Clark in that regard I think it's disagreeing with that. At large, fantasy fiction is not just escape but presenting those real world issues and having us think about them in allegory. The idea of mutation as homosexuality ranges from strenuous to dubious given a particular story, but that doesn't stop real people from making that connection and having it resonate strongly. It means a lot to people, and I don't see why someone couldn't search for meaning in Superman.

I think one can based on what we are given the narrative. If one Superman had an easier time in terms of world acceptance, one can make the argument. I said up to a point both are privileged. Superman doesn't write himself. The writers do that. Truth allowed themes to be explored we never got before. The writers also use the characters as mouthpieces sometimes. One of the biggest criticisms people have re Jurgens and Tomasi. So they are they ones trying to compare. Fans will counter. Counter on what we are given via the experiences of the characters.

The protecting the loved ones. Again it is an old troupe. Comics nowadays have characters tossing out secret Ids. And within those worlds they work because they are using the basis that the heroes are open with the world and themselves. It's not something I think has to be set in stone in superhero lore. Superman, sooner or later, prob will be destined to change to adapt when the world does.

And yes anyone can dig deep perhaps and say it resonates but people have to acknowledge as well as the people who go through stuff like real racism etc... stuff like this can irk and annoy and in fact undermine the problems people have been struggling with for a while and unfortunately still do. There are some issues that are too deep and too much damage has been inflicted to not acknowledge that the comic hasn't truly addressed these ideas either. Which is why someone who has another racial background like me is saying it because many of us have lived it, have seen people who live it still and text book and comicbook is not reflective of authentic experience. And even if they wanted to get into those themes, what's been done is debatable as far as I have seen in the life of the Whites or Smiths or whoever they are now.

[manofsteel1979]

No of course you're not alone. All the SM/WW shippers are with you!

It's too simplistic to just say it's only WW/Superman shippers that dislike the current Superman,but a lot of the most intense vitriol towards him does seem to emanate from that group. To be fair it was the same with the hard core Clois-ers hating New 52 Superman. The beat goes on,I guess.

[Superlad93]

As being African American and a woman at that, I know first hand about racism and this definitely is not it, even for so called "text book" racism. Jon is very privileged and stays privileged because he hides, just like Superman. Again he is depicted as the average American boy with a farmer dad and his mother writes books. They are just a regular All- American family. The only thing Jon has gone through is again, everyday cliched school bully and catching an attitude because he had to move away from where they were first.

Superman was raised as a regular kid hiding that he is alien. All he has to do was change his persona a little, put on a pair of glasses and/or a cap now to pretend to be a regular caucasian man. Actual POCs do not have that luxury to hide as Superman and Jon does. Superman and Jon are able to go to work and school regularly.

You should probably read W. E. B. Du Bois because you've just described the concept of double consciousness.

Double consciousness is a concept that Du Bois first explores in 1903 publication, “The Souls of Black Folk”. Double consciousness describes the individual sensation of feeling as though your identity is divided into several parts, making it difficult or impossible to have one unified identity.

Due to Clark and Jon being aliens they've had to divide their identities in order to function in the world they live in.

[LoveStar]

You should probably read W. E. B. Du Bois because you've just described the concept of double consciousness.

Double consciousness is a concept that Du Bois first explores in 1903 publication, “The Souls of Black Folk”. Double consciousness describes the individual sensation of feeling as though your identity is divided into several parts, making it difficult or impossible to have one unified identity.

Due to Clark and Jon being aliens they've had to divide their identities in order to function in the world they live in.

I don't need to read the book because it's not going to make a difference. Clark and Jon do not have to divide their identities to function.
Superman chooses to do so and life is easy for him because he is still not depicted as a POC character.
DCU has many other aliens and mutants and magic creatures who don't have to divide anything. The only reason Superman is still stuck with this in rebirth is becasue they want to play with old troupes and get him and lois to take other versions place. There is no big deep reason by Jurgens other than he wants his versions and his versions have to have the typical Superman secret id and back at the DP even though it's absurd what Lois is doing, just walking into another woman's life and job.

POCs are divided by society anyway no matter what kind of background you come from. I can't put on a pair of glasses that I don't actually need to hide I'm African American. Superman is an Alien....a different being from a different planet...who happens to look human and caucasian that's how he is able to function in this world.