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  1. #16
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Well it's clear the OP has the answer to his question.

    One thing I will say is its purely subjective. Outside of Morrison's run and Pak's non crossover stuff,i never found myself all that invested in New 52 Superman. I tried. Honestly I did. There were times I loved the guy. However much of the time , looking back,i was indifferent.

    I hate how they brought REBIRTH Supes in.... but I can't deny that I find myself far more invested in this guy,especially in the SUPERMAN book. That comes down to the writting, which is again,subjective.If Nuperman was consistantly written,i would have felt the same way I guess as the OP does. I'm less attached to a specific version of the and more attached to good stories. All subjective.

    I've been a reader 25 plus years,so I've felt what the OP does. preFlashpoint right around the reboot was the time where I'd gotten to that point where I was thinking " this ain't Supes.".
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  2. #17
    Mighty Member manduck37's Avatar
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    Well, you certainly aren't the only one who prefers New 52 Superman. Just like there are plenty of people who prefer Superdad. Different strokes and all that. Me personally, I'll take Superdad over Nuperman any day of the week. Not because of nostalgia. Actually, quite the reverse. For all the talk of "potential" about Nuperman, he really was a big time regression. Made young and single again. Retelling his and his villains origins again. Isolating him to that lonely alien. All regression. Superdad is the natural continuation of the Superman story. He gets married, starts a family, builds relationships at work and among the superhero community. Superdad's life actually changes. He's not a reporter anymore, he's become a farmer like his father. He's going through a very human struggle of trying to do right by his family while being pulled in other directions. He's the only version of Superman to actually progress. Him and Nightwing seem to be the only characters who have been allowed to grow and change. I personally like that.

    Now, that's not to say that I didn't like Nuperman. Actually I did. If they stuck with him as the main Superman I would have kept reading. I like the guy. The problem for me was that he started out strong with the Morrison origin and then quickly fizzled out. He was losing supporting cast members like crazy. He was torn down and never rebuilt. I'm not just talking about Truth. Gradually, throughout the whole line, he became more isolated. That made him kind of boring for me. The Pak stuff was good but the rest was kind of a mess. Seems editorial had a hand in that. I know a lot of people feel that Superdad isn't the "real" Superman because of the circumstances of his arrival. I actually felt that way about Nuperman. He exists because the timeline was screwed up. So to me, he always felt like the result of a cosmic mishap. It never quite rang true with me.

    Now, one unexpected problem that kind of annoys me is that I'm a big collector of Superman things. My office at work is covered in Superman statues and the like. I have a few really nice Nuperman statues that decorate my office from The Man of Steel line and the Icon statue. They're beautifully sculpted and awesome to look at. If it turns out that he wasn't Superman, I'm going to be pretty ticked off that my statues aren't really Superman. By the way, if any of you are collectors of this sort of stuff, I very highly recommend the Rags Morales, Kenneth Rocafort, Cully Hamner and The DC Icons statues. All very affordable and highly detailed.

    To sum up my thoughts, I think Nuperman got a raw deal. I don't particularly care for how we got Superdad. Though of the two, I prefer Superdad. So I'll keep reading and enjoying the books. I actually haven't enjoyed the Superbooks this much in a long time. Though I do really sympathize with Nuperman fans. Especially the ones who got on board with Superman because of the New 52 (which was the entire point). Though I will say, this tends to happen to us Superman fans. Get on-board with the current direction and have everything reset on you. Welcome to the club...

  3. #18
    Never Giving Up! GreenLanternRanger's Avatar
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    @OP Nah, there's plenty of people who pointlessly hate on Superdad. Sadly you are not alone in that.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I can definitely understand people falling somewhere on the spectrum of dislike as being way greater in number than any thread can contain.

    But the interesting thing to me is, what about the creators?
    What do you mean with "what about the creators"?

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    I don't hate Superdad, but I don't like him as much as I did New 52 Superman. It's not that he can't be a good character. I just think it was really callous to just force him into New 52 Superman's role, just to get him out of the way so that they could have their "classic" Superman back in the spotlight. It gives the impression that nothing New 52 Superman did mattered. He was just an obstacle for DC and I just don't care for that kind of approach.
    This is how I feel. It's not the concept I have a problem with, it's how they went about it. Now New 52 Superman is being treated as having not mattered at all. I also feel like I wasted my money buying all those books for nothing. I don't think the PTB take that kind of stuff into consideration when doing things like this. All so Dan Jurgens can have his own personal fan fiction. I don't mind the idea of Superman as a father. I mind that they killed off the "new" Superman to do it all while essentially going out of their way to sabotage him to set up the return of the "old" Superman. The entire New 52 universe had so much potential but it's obvious that nobody wanted to work with it but Dan Didio.
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  6. #21
    Incredible Member SuperCrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W8IN4KAL-EL View Post
    Am I the only one that hates Superdad? I mean I can't stand him.. This is not the Superman that I grew up reading 42 years ago.Jon is annoying
    I agree. I find new52 Superman vastly superior to SuperDad as a character. Also, I find child superheroes like his son annoying as a generality, and I particularly find this kid's insertion into the Superman line so heavily to be damaging to my personal view of the Superman brand (Among other things, that Superman seems willing to put his son in danger as a sidekick is contrary to his traditional view that children should be kept out of danger. Also, he seems to want to protect his family more than his city or adopted homeworld, which is understandable, but not the selfless heroic Superman of the past.).

    It was clearly that somebody wanted this new 10-year old superhero character to be as popular and as well known as possible, so they made him basically co-equal with the current Superman in Superman's own titles, rather than just creating a new book for people who wanted to follow the adventures of a 10-year old superhero, because the new book wouldn't have sort of a semi-captive audience of Superman fans buying it and might have failed on it's own. That doesn't seem right to me.

    There's also the basic fact that the two Supermen could have co-existed. They could have made the SuperDad and Son thing an alternate universe monthly, or if they felt they needed those two characters to be the stars of the main Superman titles in the main universe, given new52 Superman some other role or put him off in another universe where he'd have had his own monthly and fans could follow his continuing adventures. With all the comic books they put out on a monthly basis, it seems like new52 Superman as defender of a different city or "returned" to "his original" universe would have sold enough to justify them making the comic- I'd have subscribed instantly, obviously.

    The lack of regard from editors and writers towards new52 Superman and his fans also reflects very poorly on them. I mean, some tried a little to reach out, but mostly they've just trashed the character to play up to SuperDad fans, who's previous favorite Superman (Pre-Crisis Superman- who may or may not be SuperDad, hasn't been made 100% clear yet) the editors and writers also trashed when debuting new52 Superman. Why can't they try to appeal to both groups simultaneously, give them at least one monthly featuring their favorite guy, and say both Supermen are great? Why the need to trash and diminish one and only have one at a time?

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Well it's clear the OP has the answer to his question.

    One thing I will say is its purely subjective. Outside of Morrison's run and Pak's non crossover stuff,i never found myself all that invested in New 52 Superman. I tried. Honestly I did. There were times I loved the guy. However much of the time , looking back,i was indifferent.

    I hate how they brought REBIRTH Supes in.... but I can't deny that I find myself far more invested in this guy,especially in the SUPERMAN book. That comes down to the writting, which is again,subjective.If Nuperman was consistantly written,i would have felt the same way I guess as the OP does. I'm less attached to a specific version of the and more attached to good stories. All subjective.

    I've been a reader 25 plus years,so I've felt what the OP does. preFlashpoint right around the reboot was the time where I'd gotten to that point where I was thinking " this ain't Supes.".
    This sums up how I feel pretty well. I also agree with manduck37's point about how Superdad feels more novel and progressive.

  8. #23
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    What do you mean with "what about the creators"?
    I don't expect anyone to go out and say they want superman back or dislike the story, but do any of them really?

  9. #24
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCrab View Post
    I agree. I find new52 Superman vastly superior to SuperDad as a character. Also, I find child superheroes like his son annoying as a generality, and I particularly find this kid's insertion into the Superman line so heavily to be damaging to my personal view of the Superman brand (Among other things, that Superman seems willing to put his son in danger as a sidekick is contrary to his traditional view that children should be kept out of danger. Also, he seems to want to protect his family more than his city or adopted homeworld, which is understandable, but not the selfless heroic Superman of the past.).

    It was clearly that somebody wanted this new 10-year old superhero character to be as popular and as well known as possible, so they made him basically co-equal with the current Superman in Superman's own titles, rather than just creating a new book for people who wanted to follow the adventures of a 10-year old superhero, because the new book wouldn't have sort of a semi-captive audience of Superman fans buying it and might have failed on it's own. That doesn't seem right to me.

    There's also the basic fact that the two Supermen could have co-existed. They could have made the SuperDad and Son thing an alternate universe monthly, or if they felt they needed those two characters to be the stars of the main Superman titles in the main universe, given new52 Superman some other role or put him off in another universe where he'd have had his own monthly and fans could follow his continuing adventures. With all the comic books they put out on a monthly basis, it seems like new52 Superman as defender of a different city or "returned" to "his original" universe would have sold enough to justify them making the comic- I'd have subscribed instantly, obviously.

    The lack of regard from editors and writers towards new52 Superman and his fans also reflects very poorly on them. I mean, some tried a little to reach out, but mostly they've just trashed the character to play up to SuperDad fans, who's previous favorite Superman (Pre-Crisis Superman- who may or may not be SuperDad, hasn't been made 100% clear yet) the editors and writers also trashed when debuting new52 Superman. Why can't they try to appeal to both groups simultaneously, give them at least one monthly featuring their favorite guy, and say both Supermen are great? Why the need to trash and diminish one and only have one at a time?
    I still think the most elegant solution is to reveal that Nuperman and his Lois are the real Superman and Lois....of a parallel universe. When the universe got rejiggered with during the finale of FLASHPOINT,Superman and Lois were missing on Tellos. So,someone...the Time Trapper,Dominus,Mr Oz...dr. Manhattan.... whomever... plucked Nuperman and Nu Lois from their native timeline (a rebooted pre 1986 Earth 2)and plugged him them into place,altering the New 52 verse around them to mirror their memories in the other timeline. Bring Nuperman and Nu Lois back,have them help Superman and the other heroes save the universe at the end of this whole Rebirth mega story,they discover the truth about themselves and after some goodbyes and farewells to the heroes of Earth 0,they return to their native timeline...which is essentially the New 52 universe...the REAL Earth 2.


    Bam. Done. Superdad and family stay on the main earth,Nuperman returns to his real timeline where he can continue his life where he left off. I'd pretty much keep everything up to Truth canon for him and pretend everything after that didn't happen. Go and beg Greg Pak and Kuder to come back and write his new monthly book... SUPERMAN: MAN OF TOMORROW and turn them the f--k loose and let them do what they want with him. Go nuts. have him date Wonder Woman or Batman I don't care.Perhaps have an annual Crossover special for the two Supermen to cross earths and team up.

    There. Fixed it DC. Nuperman fans get their Supes back, we all get another kick ass Superman title to read with room to explore a separate universe to experiment. You can cut me a check anytime now.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 10-27-2016 at 10:55 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I still think the most elegant solution is to reveal that Nuperman and his Lois are the real Superman and Lois....of a parallel universe. When the universe got rejiggered with during the finale of FLASHPOINT,Superman and Lois were missing on Tellos. So,someone...the Time Trapper,Dominus,Mr Oz...dr. Manhattan.... whomever... plucked Nuperman and Nu Lois from their native timeline (a rebooted pre 1986 Earth 2)and plugged him them into place,altering the New 52 verse around them to mirror their memories in the other timeline. Bring Nuperman and Nu Lois back,have them help Superman and the other heroes save the universe at the end of this whole Rebirth mega story,they discover the truth about themselves and after some goodbyes and farewells to the heroes of Earth 0,they return to their native timeline...which is essentially the New 52 universe...the REAL Earth 2.


    Bam. Done. Superdad and family stay on the main earth,Nuperman returns to his real timeline where he can continue his life where he left off. I'd pretty much keep everything up to Truth canon for him and pretend everything after that didn't happen. Go and beg Greg Pak and Kuder to come back and write his new monthly book... SUPERMAN: MAN OF TOMORROW and turn them the f--k loose and let them do what they want with him. Go nuts. have him date Wonder Woman or Batman I don't care.Perhaps have an annual Crossover special for the two Supermen to cross earths and team up.

    There. Fixed it DC. Nuperman fans get their Supes back, we all get another kick ass Superman title to read with room to explore a separate universe to experiment. You can cut me a check anytime now.
    This is a great idea....which is probably why they won't do it.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholyrevenger72 View Post
    it ain't the first time the half-blooded son has surpassed the father



    Jon is just DC reciprocating when Toriyama made Goku a Superman analog
    After seeing what happened to Gohan after the Cell Saga, I doubt Jon will ever be allowed to surpass Clark.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Hate is a bit too strong, but I did prefer the New 52 Superman.

    Plus I generally do hate it when characters are killed off to replace them with a more nostalgia-friendly version of the same character. It caused me to drop a lot of books over the years, even if it's the exact same character a few years/decades of characterisation undone, like what happened to both Catwoman and Black Cat going back to villainy.
    Catwoman's was at least handled better than Black Cat imo.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Catwoman's was at least handled better than Black Cat imo.
    Well, that is indeed a very low bar to clear.

  14. #29
    Incredible Member 13th Superman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    I don't hate him any more, but no, I don't like him.

    That said, I haven't read more than previews and some of his appearances Pre-Rebirth so I suppose that might have something to do with it.

    (when I say pre-Rebirth, I mean in the New-52 - I've actually read YEARS of his series prior to the New-52)


    Interesting note, btw - because of how I was exposed to Superman, I actually started reading the Bronze Age Superman! Pre-Crisis and all - read some of my step-siblings old mags, and the Swedish reprints where actually several years BEHIND, so we didn't get Crisis until almost two years later - so my Superman has never quite been PC Supes...

    I got into the GA Superman a few years back, about two years before Infinite Crisis, first reading COIE, and taking a liking to the old geezer, and upon reading one of the Showcases I was hooked! HERE was the Superman that really spoke to me...!

    When Morrison's Action Comics launched, I felt as if Superman was finally truly coming back! A man of the people! Fighting corruption! Cleaning up the streets! Beating up wife-beaters! Sticking it to the god-damn MAN!


    Yeah... those were the days! = )

    That's the Superman I always envision. My first experience with the character were the old Fleischer tapes I had in my home when I was a child, followed by old rer runs of the George Reeves television show. One of my favorite episodes was his war on crime. So early on the Superman in my mind was a bit rough around the edges and was champion of the oppressed. My dad would once in a while bring home Superman comics which I now know as the post crisis version. My local library had archives of old golden age heroes and I followed those extensively. The way Superman was written matched my early conception of the character. I couldn't get enough! The Superman I'd seen in the Christopher Reeve movies and in other portrayals felt like parodies. There was a disconnect and it stayed for long while. I just accepted it. There glimpses here and there like Louis Simonson and Jon Bogdanove's portrayal but that was about it until Action Comics # 1 by Morrison. That same feeling I had as a child came back. His new 52 run wasn't perfect, but it was the closest to how I envision him. There may be some that were uncomfortable with him standing with protesters, laughing at a supremacists, and so on but I loved those moments. And now we have Superdad. Do I hate him? I did. Part of me still does but now it's just giving way to apathy.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholyrevenger72 View Post
    it ain't the first time the half-blooded son has surpassed the father



    Jon is just DC reciprocating when Toriyama made Goku a Superman analog
    Quote Originally Posted by W8IN4KAL-EL View Post
    good point but Superman should never be surpassed...btw I just noticed the 'hobbit' style shoes ..lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    After seeing what happened to Gohan after the Cell Saga, I doubt Jon will ever be allowed to surpass Clark.
    At this point I've seen more than a few people refer to Evan's Cap as the Superman of this generation despite being from a different company. If there ever does come a time where we get a true blue Superman successor things like lineage or power will be irrelevant to the concept.

    As for the topic, a good Superman story is more a feeling than a set continuity or anything like that to me at this point. Up and down I feel the Golden and Silver age were superior to anything that came after and I think the farm stuff is basically just post-crisis giberish at this point that's adding nothing of worth to the character but the stories where he's fighting the eradicator or the dino-island stuff were thoroughly enjoyable however. A good Supes story is a good Supes story has been my approach to Superman since 2009, best way to look at it.

    Beyond that I'd say trying to assert any Superman that isn't the Golden age one is just blind fanboyism in the end anyways, it might by YOUR Superman but it's not THE Superman. Frankly I think that's the mindset that DC needs to adopt concerning Superman if there is ever to be any sort of stability in the franchise ever again.
    Last edited by The World; 10-27-2016 at 01:13 PM.
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