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  1. #46
    Omnes Viae Ad Infernum 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W8IN4KAL-EL View Post
    Am I the only one that hates Superdad? I mean I can't stand him.. This is not the Superman that I grew up reading 42 years ago.Jon is annoying and I find it hard in believing that someone with a human mother would have powers yet alone better than his dads(i.e his speed and also able to hurt him with his heat vision).What's next..He is going to be stronger than him?I would more readily buy it if it was Superman AND Wonder Woman's offspring.If this is the 'classic' Superman why is he wearing that stupid,pajama looking suit? Wouldn't he have the original (red underwear and all)suit? Why would he even change it?I pray that he is an alternate one from a parallel planet.
    No, you're not. I mean, I was a fan of pre-FP Supes, and collected his comic books for years. But his time passed, and DC came and sold us new52 as a new take. I bought that pitch, and I liked it.

    Agree with you on the SMWW offspring. As for that last comment of yours, since he's the pre-FP, Earth-0 Superman, I would like to see him and his family sent to another Earth. After all, Superdoom (no, not THAT one) and Darkseid killed a bunch of Supermen from other universes, so there's plenty of space for him there.

  2. #47
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    Troll threads always begin.... "Am I the only one...." Supercrab beat you to it.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I definitely prefer New 52 Superman's personality. Superdad is a more stoic conservative version of the character. He's the "big blue Boy Scout" version of Superman. I can actually see Superdad taking orders from Reagan to eliminate The Dark Knight. He's that type of Superman.
    That was my problem with the post-crisis comics of my cousins.. I am only fan of Superman THANKS to another versions, for this in N52 I believed... Finally I have THE CORRECT SUPERMAN... Nothing of boyscout.. Know the truth about pre-crisis superman made my happy... This man not was the original character.. Yes, Reeve never made me think about it, he was the correct superman, like Kingdoom Come Superman..

    But too nice to be true(the end of his era) I suspected that 3 years ago and I was not wrong... Again the boyscout..
    . Well, to wait alternative universe with different supermen.. or try with old comics of alternative universes.. and pre-crisis comics.. I did the correct with Kingdoom Come Superman.
    Last edited by adrikito; 10-28-2016 at 12:51 PM.

  4. #49
    Spectacular Member BeefBourguignon's Avatar
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    Eh? Silver Age Superman was definitive Big Blue Boy Scout.
    Great repositories for everything regarding Post-Crisis Superman
    http://www.fortressofbaileytude.com/
    http://superman86to99.tumblr.com/

  5. #50
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    It's a strange and vague pejorative that people fling at superman from time to time. Really, what does it mean? It stumps me as to why people who know the character well perpetuate the term.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member UltimateTy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W8IN4KAL-EL View Post
    Am I the only one that hates Superdad? I mean I can't stand him
    I feel the same way.
    We need better comics

  7. #52
    Spectacular Member W8IN4KAL-EL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    I don't have any emotional investment in this current guy and his problems...whatever few he has or they trying to create for him. I still did with the guy back in the preflashpoint verse. This one for someone who should be older and wiser, he feels very self absorbed about his own comfort. He feels worse than pre new 52 at his whiniest. There was still a sense of sacrifice with the other Clark but this one...He comes to a new world and he sits on his butt for 10 years. He watches a younger version and the JL and the world go through mess and he never steps up. A great metaphor for him is when the JL gets pulverized but he prefers to chop vegetables or he has JL obligations but he leaves prematurely to go home for dinner. Lucky him. Not even normal people can just leave their jobs and say they have dinner first. Lois has to tell him what should be obvious to him.. His vibe feels like he doesn't really care that much for the world just wants to play happy family.
    e been conceived the way he was and nor should be be more powerful than his father. That is Jurgens head canon DC is running with now.
    Preach it ..I agree .. Who the hell is this guy??!! Lois has to continuously remind HIM how to be 'Superman' .. He is a sick joke to me!! I went back and reread 'Lois and Clark #1'. It starts out by him watching the JLA getting their asses handed to them by Darkseid ..then..taking off...but he was just this close to jumping in ..oh my..save it !! My thoughts ran to the time that the JLA fought RAO and that was a worldwide catastrophe where Nuperman was mortally wounded and this 'Superman' never EVER showed...Maybe he was having dessert with his precious Jon thinking he is 'this close' of helping out...He wanted to BUT Lois probably was nowhere to be found to let him know how to be him and he got confused..NO WAY IS THIS CLOWN CLASSIC SUPERMAN!!

  8. #53
    Spectacular Member W8IN4KAL-EL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    If you've been a reader for 42 years, and you started at 10, then THE Superman was shuffled off some years before you were born. Unfortunately I can't imagine many of the few adults who complained about it, who saw the clear difference between the strangely racist Fleischer cartoons in their theaters and the Superdad of the atomic age, are still with us. It's also hard to imagine that by the time you came on board they even cared. Superman never belonged to one group of people, that's the beautiful thing about him.


    Sounds like a lesson. When did you finally give in?

    I was never into the Fleisher cartoons..I got interested because of the art (Neal Adams got me hooked young)..I started avid reading him from the early 70's on. That's the Superman I remember and loved. My love was tested and strained when Byrne took the reigns but persevered ..The new 'classic' Superman will not fair as well to me..I can't stand him because I DO NOT KNOW HIM.

    I gave into the t-shirt and boots version out of curiosity and ending up liking it a lot..I could totally see someone raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent behaving like he did..Also, it kind of reminded me of classic Peter Parker (Spiderman)

  9. #54
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    He did and does fare well because if you knew him, you'd know that post Byrne era, 1988-1995, was a consistently strong period across the books. His foundation is strong.

    And you not being big on the Fleischer material is part of the point. After the source of the actual comics, those cartoons are a massive part of the golden age legacy. If anyone tried to make an argument for the real Superman, that cartoon version would stand well above anything Adams drew. So the "real" Superman argument is pretty irrelevant when it has no bearing on what you actually like.

  10. #55
    Spectacular Member W8IN4KAL-EL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    He did and does fare well because if you knew him, you'd know that post Byrne era, 1988-1995, was a consistently strong period across the books. His foundation is strong.

    And you not being big on the Fleischer material is part of the point. After the source of the actual comics, those cartoons are a massive part of the golden age legacy. If anyone tried to make an argument for the real Superman, that cartoon version would stand well above anything Adams drew. So the "real" Superman argument is pretty irrelevant when it has no bearing on what you actually like.
    Never said that I didn't like the 1988-1995 era..just didn't care for Byrne's handling of the character.The Superman I grew up with from the 70's on up is what I remember and I still stick to what I say in that it is not the same one of todays comics.

  11. #56
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Oh. I usually see people target Byrne in general when criticizing post crisis at large. Although he put in considerably more work than Morrison did in New 52, his overall time with the character was pretty short. And for all that can be said about how he started or finished, an important thing to keep in mind is the overall reception to his work, which significantly gave more financial provision for the character than the year or two before him. To say he's not well remembered, even if we're only talking about Byrne, seems like a stretch.

  12. #57
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    The hackneyed way he was implemented makes things so much worse. If they just used the oppportunity of Rebirth to at least reboot Superman, since they're now hellbent on bringing back a variant of the character that they threw to the wolves in 2011, it'd be a hell of a lot less confusing than the current status quo. There's got to be some kind of end game or long term with this, there's no way that they're gonna leave this status quo this muddled.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by manduck37 View Post
    Yes, they were. That doesn't change the idea that he's still going through some human emotions and experiences. Like Morrison said, Superman takes normal human life and turns it up to eleven. The circumstances are irrelevant. The core of the experience is the important part.
    But causation IS important to the human race and the human experience. The guy who moves his family to another country because his hometown got demolished by a radicalized militia is going to be pretty different from the guy who's moving out of his hometown because he thinks too many migrants are moving in. These sorts of things determine who you are.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W8IN4KAL-EL View Post
    Preach it ..I agree .. Who the hell is this guy??!! Lois has to continuously remind HIM how to be 'Superman' .. He is a sick joke to me!! I went back and reread 'Lois and Clark #1'. It starts out by him watching the JLA getting their asses handed to them by Darkseid ..then..taking off...but he was just this close to jumping in ..oh my..save it !! My thoughts ran to the time that the JLA fought RAO and that was a worldwide catastrophe where Nuperman was mortally wounded and this 'Superman' never EVER showed...Maybe he was having dessert with his precious Jon thinking he is 'this close' of helping out...He wanted to BUT Lois probably was nowhere to be found to let him know how to be him and he got confused..NO WAY IS THIS CLOWN CLASSIC SUPERMAN!!
    Did you read his interacting with Aquaman?

    It made me cringe.

    Like everyone I guess we all have different versions we like. In Aquaman the writer said he made no distinction about which Superman he wrote although he full well knew this was not new 52. The new 52 one knew Arthur and would never in a million years call him a terrorist. These kinds of oversights can kill the character for me and I am sure other people who are on the fence about Superman. They see him as a gov't stooge and someone who is overpowered and has no problems. There is a double standard because he doesn't live his life openly and gets to play happy family and yet he has the gall to call Arthur out. Arthur is not hiding. Arthur is more truthful that Superman is if we examine the situation.

    DC, at this stage cannot and should not do this to the character. Classic Superman for me then is the hypocritical flag waver, who sees a world in black and white, not degrees. The Superman that takes orders from an administration regardless of the kind it is. The Superman who gets an easy life because he has a double life. The Superman who has the nerve to judge others but he doesn't get judged. Superman should be willing to cooperate yes but he should not be a symbol for the establishment. He should be outside of that. The social crusader fits for today's world but DC keeps wanting the conservative family man of decades ago. I don't like this Superman. I don't relate to him. The world and times has changed. Superman right now in comics is not doing anything too difficult. He's punching dinosaurs. He is playing house. He is just doing the random monster fight. He is running home for dinner. What's he doing that no hero is not doing? What makes this Superman better than other heroes? We have not seen anything to support it other than it's nostalgia.

    I was intrigued when they had new 52 ID outed. I thought here was a great chance to see DC really get the character to step it up and embrace his truth and own what he is. Because Clark and Superman are one as far as I am concerned. I don't get the hang ups about masks and needing grounding etc. But DC is stuck in the old troupes that for me I can't just can't suspend disbelief anymore and really buy into it. Other characters on the other hand be it DC or Marvel...can throw off ids, change their status quos, be powered down or up, get explored with real world themes and it all adds to developing the character. Dc tried with new 52. There were great moments in Action Comics under Morrison and Pak that explored the man of the people, the man who would actually stand for truth and justice. Clark, with his ID outed, standing powerless holding the line, protecting civilians from the police is such a powerful moment. Truth could have been done so well but seems they wanted to sabotage it from day one.

    Jurgens pitched his Convergence and we are back to square one. Classic, boring Superman. But DC says this is what longtime fans want. I don't know how true this is because I am seeing many longtime readers say they don't like this either.
    Last edited by hellacre; 10-29-2016 at 05:03 PM.

  15. #60
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    Superdad fans like that he feels classic
    Superdad detractors don't like that he is a part time hero who has to be pushed into being one.

    Isn't there a middle ground?

    And if this Superman wants to only be a part time hero than he needs to start training a successor,and I have just the character=kon-el

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