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  1. #61
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I am not overly fazed by Superdad being a "part time hero" though I do have issues with how this was treated in the Lois & Clark mini.

    My issue with Superdad is that he comes from a version (started by Byrne) that flew in the face of fifty years of characterization. The idea that Clark Kent was the real personality and Superman just a mask is not how the character had ever really been handled. Up to that point there had been basically two ways of looking at Superman; the stark division found in the Silver-Bronze Ages, and the more meshed version of the Golden Age where Superman acted like Superman regardless of whether he was dressed like Clark, unless he happened to remember that Clark was supposed to be a mild mannered coward. Byrne took everything fantastical and whimsical about Superman and stripped it away. When future writers tried to put those elements back, it never fit right. So far Superdad feels like a Superman to me, and the "regular guy" stuff has been balanced by his other, more Super qualities. But the fear of character regression hangs over his head and makes me worry.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  2. #62
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    But he isn't any more of a "part time hero" than nearly any other Clark with a secret identity. Even in the Lois and Clark mini. His mountain Fortress showcases all of the crazy adventures that he's gotten into over the years in the new 52. If you take into account that Superdad BUILT and stocked his Fortress with his own two hands then that should tell you something. The fact that all of his trophies and gadgets were obtained via adventures or him building them (likely FOR adventures) should tell you his level of activity. Lois also confirms in Justice League that Superdad would save the world right under the JL's noses. Superdad even had alien friends in his Fortress that he was saving in some way.

    But what I really don't get is how anyone thinks of him as "part time" now? I mean don't all Clarks have secret identities where they go to sleep, eat, talk to people, work, sit down and chill, be with family, and so on? If that is part time then there is no full time Superman outside of an imaginary story where there is no Clark.

    What has the current Superman done to "earn" him the title of "part time?" Sit and talk to people he cares about? New 52 did that too. Eat dinner? New 52 did that too. This complaint makes no actual sense to me.

  3. #63
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    The current Superman actually has a LOT in common with Blue Marvel when it comes to being a secret hero. Adam had faith that the Fantastic Four and Uatu would beat Galactus. But that doesn't mean he was sitting on his ass. He was literally saving the universe. Superdad's New 52 history indicates that he was doing roughly the same thing in the sense that he was dealing with out of this world fights while the New 52 heroes where fighting their battles. And you know what? I think it's super cool how they did that with Adam, and there's literally nothing that says the same can't be true for Superdad.

    Hell, I'd more than love to see some pulp/fringe science fiction flashbacks to Clark as a secret hero. "The curse of the pharaoh's crypt" or "invasion of the invisible aliens" sort of thing. There's a secret history as long as the New 52 there to use. Totally new Superman adventures with totally new foes. It's all implied, and there for the taking.




    Last edited by Superlad93; 10-29-2016 at 02:38 PM.

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Superdad fans like that he feels classic
    Superdad detractors don't like that he is a part time hero who has to be pushed into being one.

    Isn't there a middle ground?

    And if this Superman wants to only be a part time hero than he needs to start training a successor,and I have just the character=kon-el
    Should Superman at such a young age...be a part time hero? He is not a regular hero. DC keep saying he is the one to lead the way, the symbol, the light...he is a hero who is not human ie its built into his genetics he has longevity. These years in his twenties and thirties and even forties...Superman, if he is to live up to his name, and what he should be...should just be getting warmed up. Does it call for Sacrifice? Yes. It should. Heroes are heroes because life is not all sunshine and rainbows for them, there is some element of sacrifice.

    It's why I find all these Messianic metaphors an irony as well. Superman doesn't really live up to it. He's just the happy go lucky guy, getting what even normal people struggle to have. Even in a world they claim he is a total refugee overnight he's gotten it all again.

    And if he wants a normal life...give the cape up totally, there is or was Conner...or Kara but I always thought Superman was about the never ending battle. There should never be a compromise about needing to be part time with someone of his power. With great power does come great responsibility. It's just absurd for a Superman to sit on the sidelines because he wants to kick back.

    The way things seem to be going they will prob age him and give everything to Jon Kent because they ignoring the biology of Kryptonians anyway. If Jon Kent becomes Superman say in ten/fifteen years, he is 10 now...I won't be interested.

  5. #65
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    But he isn't any more of a "part time hero" than nearly any other Clark with a secret identity. Even in the Lois and Clark mini. His mountain Fortress showcases all of the crazy adventures that he's gotten into over the years in the new 52. If you take into account that Superdad BUILT and stocked his Fortress with his own two hands then that should tell you something. The fact that all of his trophies and gadgets were obtained via adventures or him building them (likely FOR adventures) should tell you his level of activity. Lois also confirms in Justice League that Superdad would save the world right under the JL's noses. Superdad even had alien friends in his Fortress that he was saving in some way.

    But what I really don't get is how anyone thinks of him as "part time" now? I mean don't all Clarks have secret identities where they go to sleep, eat, talk to people, work, sit down and chill, be with family, and so on? If that is part time then there is no full time Superman outside of an imaginary story where there is no Clark.

    What has the current Superman done to "earn" him the title of "part time?" Sit and talk to people he cares about? New 52 did that too. Eat dinner? New 52 did that too. This complaint makes no actual sense to me.
    I cant speak for the guy who first said it, but in my mind yeah, Superman has often been a "part time" hero.

    At least when compared to characters who dont have secret identities at all like Carol Danvers or (these days) Hal Jordan. Those guys are always on call, while people like Clark and Barry and Bruce have real lives to attend to.

    It seems there are two different avenues writers use; either Superman is seen so rarely (only when its really a job for Superman) that it easily covers Clark Kent's time requirements, or Superman is seen almost constantly as Clark fits in a few saves around bathroom breaks, lunch, and his subway commute back to his apartment. I myself prefer the latter, but the former is perfectly acceptable too, and in some ways is even better.

    The idea of Superman not being as active as other heroes doesnt bother me. He's Superman; his actions cause some really big ripples and I'd argue that a part time Superman is more effective than 98% of the full time heroes. Plus his work as Clark Kent tackles complex social issues and are as important, if not moreso, than fighting Metallo in the Avenue of Tomorrow for the billionth time.

    Now, insofar as what Superdad was up to during his ten years in hiding.....I am impressed with the Fortress he built by hand and the trophies indicate a level of activity that I would dearly like to see explored in flashbacks. My concern with this particular time frame is what he was doing during the big stuff. What was he doing during Forever Evil, Doomed, etc? I know that these stories were told before his return was finalized, but I'd like to have those blanks filled in. Without doubt he was saving lives, and I'd like to think that he was doing something that truly mattered, and while I can be satisfied to just make up my own explanation for his absences, it'd be cool to see the official story.

    EDIT: Also, the fact that Clark now has a kid likely means he's not as active as Superman now. I mean, my life hasn't stopped because of my children, but it does take a little more effort to get out of the house now. And in Justice League I very much get the impression that he's still keeping things on the down low; he doesn't show up at the crisis, he has to be called in. He only shows up when its a job for Superman. I think that's fine in its way, it keeps focus on the fact that he's the god damned Superman and he is the god damn best there is at what he does.
    Last edited by Ascended; 10-29-2016 at 06:03 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    With great power does come great responsibility. It's just absurd for a Superman to sit on the sidelines because he wants to kick back.
    This reminded me of something Morrison said in an interview early in the 52. I dont recall the exact wording but it was basically that "Superman is always moving, always doing something. When he stops and stands still, that's when you know he's in trouble."

    I always liked that. I love the sense of boundless, almost childlike energy that Clark sometimes exudes. I love scenes where Clark is using his powers on the sly; walking down the street with Lois in full "mild mannered" disguise, but using a quick puff of super-breath to stop someone from falling off a building two blocks over, or welding someone's weak break lines as they drive down the street ahead of him.

    These small, micro-bursts of heroism would almost make the world itself seem to get better in Clark's presence. Fewer people die, fewer accidents happen. It's almost holistic, and easily achieved by a writer who gives a damn. But I think that's largely a constant for Superman whether he's publicly Superman full time, or only shows up publicly when he's really needed. I think Superman never stops being Superman, but a lot of what he does is stuff the average person never sees. You might say "Man I haven't seen Superman in the news all day! What is he, taking a personal day?" but he's actually been interviewing people and working on an article that will shut down an entire ring of human traffickers. Or attempting to make first contact with a race of invisible, energy-based aliens who are passing by earth on their way to a new world.

    Sorry for the rant, just felt like sharing.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  7. #67
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    Question- how much more powerful was nuperman than superdad?

  8. #68
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    I'm looking at some of these comments about what people perceive about Superman and I have to wonder....what books are you guys reading?

    LOL. Just goes to show: when people WANT to hate something, they're going to find an excuse to do so no matter what...

    I for one am happy that we finally have books that feel like real Superman books again. This is the guy who I was reading when he battled Doomsday in Metropolis and when he stood up to the Elite and whose absence was felt after Infinite Crisis. He feels like...the real deal. If I was brutally honest, Nuperman never felt that way.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-29-2016 at 06:47 PM.

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Question- how much more powerful was nuperman than superdad?
    Arguably not at all.

    The "classic" post-Crisis Superman that most of us seem to think of, circa mid-late 90's/Triangle Era, Nuperman was way more powerful than that guy.

    But starting around 2000 post-Crisis started getting stronger again. Now, I stopped reading on a regular basis somewhere in 2001-02, so I cant speak with complete faith, but from that point on post-Crisis' power levels seemed fairly inconsistent. He'd struggle to hold up a large building in one issue, but be able to hold up an entire city in another. Which isnt unusual in comics at all, but the 00's era Superman felt more inconsistent than most to me.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    I'm looking at some of these comments about what people perceive about Superman and I have to wonder....what books are you guys reading?

    LOL. Just goes to show: when people WANT to hate something, they're going to find an excuse to do so no matter what...

    I for one am happy that we finally have books that feel like real Superman books again. This is the guy who I was reading when he battled Doomsday in Metropolis and when he stood up to the Elite and whose absence was felt after Infinite Crisis. He feels like...the real deal. If I was brutally honest, Nuperman never felt that way.

    Well congratulations for you the,other ppl have a different opinion,and it's still their right (for now) to have that opinion.

    Yes superdad feels right to me also,but nuperman had some great points about him also

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    I'm looking at some of these comments about what people perceive about Superman and I have to wonder....what books are you guys reading?

    LOL. Just goes to show: when people WANT to hate something, they're going to find an excuse to do so no matter what...

    I for one am happy that we finally have books that feel like real Superman books again. This is the guy who I was reading when he battled Doomsday in Metropolis and when he stood up to the Elite and whose absence was felt after Infinite Crisis. He feels like...the real deal. If I was brutally honest, Nuperman never felt that way.
    Morrison and Pak made me feel like Nuperman was the real deal, while post-Crisis rarely did, especially after the Triangle era. Other writers? Lobdell had his moments where I felt like I was reading a "true" Superman, though there were just as many which felt quite off. Perez and Jurgens never gave me the impression I was reading anything but post-Crisis Superman. Tomasi got it right in the first few issues of Final Days.

    But Im a fan of the Golden Age crusader, so Morrison's run was really well aimed for me, and Pak followed up on a lot of those tonal threads and brought in a vibe that often gave me a Bronze Age, pre-Crisis vibe.

    That said, for the most part Tomasi's Superdad is really hitting the right notes for me right now. Its not "perfect" but its not far off.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Well congratulations for you the,other ppl have a different opinion,and it's still their right (for now) to have that opinion.

    Yes superdad feels right to me also,but nuperman had some great points about him also
    I'm talking mostly about the contentions being made that Superdad is "selfish," which seems completely out of left field.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Question- how much more powerful was nuperman than superdad?
    I'm fairly sure that any and all Supermen have always been as powerful or as weak as that month's story required them to be.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    I'm talking mostly about the contentions being made that Superdad is "selfish," which seems completely out of left field.

    They are talking about how it seemed he didn't want to be the public Superman at first,and had to be talked into being "the" Superman

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I'm fairly sure that any and all Supermen have always been as powerful or as weak as that month's story required them to be.

    You would think,but superdad has already had problems with going to the core of the earth that nuperman didn't,or even pre flashpoint Superman wouldn't have

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