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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    They are talking about how it seemed he didn't want to be the public Superman at first,and had to be talked into being "the" Superman
    Yeah, but I don't think that stems at all from selfishness. Its a stretch to say the least. Him not wanting to step on the toes of who he perceived to be "this world's Superman" even though, in reality, he is this world's Superman (just doesn't know it yet) is not selfish. Its him trying to respect his legacy. Though, I may need to reread those last few issues to make sure I'm remembering correctly.

    So, calling him selfish comes across to me as simply people who are averse to having an "older Superman" (who is "married and boring" or has the pre-Flashpoint memories behind him) finding an excuse to hate on him.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Yeah, but I don't think that stems at all from selfishness. Its a stretch to say the least. Him not wanting to step on the toes of who he perceived to be "this world's Superman" even though, in reality, he is this world's Superman (just doesn't know it yet) is not selfish. Its him trying to respect his legacy. Though, I may need to reread those last few issues to make sure I'm remembering correctly.

    So, calling him selfish comes across to me as simply people who are averse to having an "older Superman" (who is "married and boring" or has the pre-Flashpoint memories behind him) finding an excuse to hate on him.

    Don't remember me calling him selfish,m maybe others,but not me.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Don't remember me calling him selfish,m maybe others,but not me.
    I didn't say it was you. It was others. I'm responding to them, not to anything you said.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    I didn't say it was you. It was others. I'm responding to them, not to anything you said.
    Well that's good to know

  5. #80
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    I think what I liked about nuperman was that he was unabashedly SUPERman

  6. #81
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    You would think,but superdad has already had problems with going to the core of the earth that nuperman didn't,or even pre flashpoint Superman wouldn't have
    Actually you're wrong here. Nuperman COULDN'T have performed the feat that Superdad performed in JL because Superman unchained establishes that the New 52 Superman loses access the the vast majority of his powers when he's even barely even close to the Earth's core. Superdad had no such issue when he was straight up INSIDE the Earth's core. Superdad has this feat OVER Nuperman.


  7. #82
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Now, insofar as what Superdad was up to during his ten years in hiding.....I am impressed with the Fortress he built by hand and the trophies indicate a level of activity that I would dearly like to see explored in flashbacks. My concern with this particular time frame is what he was doing during the big stuff. What was he doing during Forever Evil, Doomed, etc? I know that these stories were told before his return was finalized, but I'd like to have those blanks filled in. Without doubt he was saving lives, and I'd like to think that he was doing something that truly mattered, and while I can be satisfied to just make up my own explanation for his absences, it'd be cool to see the official story.
    I totally agree. Nothing has been said to imply that he was just sitting on his butt during any of those events--in fact quite the opposite is implied--but stories to confirm it would be appreciated. It's like how over in Marvel, a man of Blue Marvel's intellect and power wasn't just sitting on his butt while Galactus was ready to eat the world. Blue Marvel was hard at work saving the world/universe. There's nothing but possibility here. New villains, concepts, threats, friends, rivals, and possible locations to play with and add to the Superman world. If you think about it, it's three times to Superman history to play with (pre-52, secret years, and present stuff). You could easily find reasons why he was so busy all of these times. Maybe he was off world and Lois took Jon a secret bunker during some of these adventures.

    Side note: I wish we'd gotten more imaginative with the Lois and Clark mini. Jurgens had some really good ideas, but he didn't make good enough use of them, imo. Like for insistence, Jon became the new "Lois" to Clark and Lois' "Superman/Clark." What I mean is that it was hinted that Jon was always suspected his parents of hiding something from him, but they both keep coming up with these stories to throw him off. That's a fun dynamic that I wish would've had more space in the mini to breath, be fun, and even a little silly like the old days. Like I'm imagining a scene where Clark is like "Jon got really close to figuring it out today, Lois." Lois: "yeah I know; this could be bad.......is it weird that I'm actually super proud?" lol

    Maybe Tomasi and Gleason will retroactively go back and play with that, and uncover more of the secret years? I really hope it'll be them or Manapul.

  8. #83
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    Should Superman at such a young age...be a part time hero? He is not a regular hero. DC keep saying he is the one to lead the way, the symbol, the light...he is a hero who is not human ie its built into his genetics he has longevity. These years in his twenties and thirties and even forties...Superman, if he is to live up to his name, and what he should be...should just be getting warmed up. Does it call for Sacrifice? Yes. It should. Heroes are heroes because life is not all sunshine and rainbows for them, there is some element of sacrifice.

    It's why I find all these Messianic metaphors an irony as well. Superman doesn't really live up to it. He's just the happy go lucky guy, getting what even normal people struggle to have. Even in a world they claim he is a total refugee overnight he's gotten it all again.

    And if he wants a normal life...give the cape up totally, there is or was Conner...or Kara but I always thought Superman was about the never ending battle. There should never be a compromise about needing to be part time with someone of his power. With great power does come great responsibility. It's just absurd for a Superman to sit on the sidelines because he wants to kick back.
    I still don't get. The New 52 Superman was still as much a "part timer" as some say Superdad is. They can both be seen just relaxing or talking from time to time. They can both be seen leaving their relaxing or personal situation to go take care of business. As of Superman #7 we even see that Superdad doesn't always go to bed with Lois and Jon. We see that he'll stay up the whole night doing his job. Hell he even stops by to help each member of the JL out from whatever situation they're in. Then he makes sure everyone in Metropolis has slept soundly through the night and woken up rested for the day ahead. Only after that does return home to see his family that have already started the day without him. And even when he promises Lois that he's gonna spend the day without being a superhero, he still saves the day. It's in his very nature.

    So I don't get it. Should we look down on the New 52 Superman for all of the times he spent sleeping next to Wonder Woman? No. Or how about the fact that he spent five straight days working out underground instead of saving actual lives? No, right? Then surly we have to give him an ear full for all of the countless hours he's spent hanging out with his pal's Jimmy and Lois? No, because the New 52 Superman was just as much a "part timer" as any Superman with a secret identity. Just like Ascended pointed out, the only real heroes that are "full time" are like Hal and robots like Red Tornado.

  9. #84
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    All this talk from a few that Nuperman was always some paragon of heroic sacrifice and virtue while current Superman is some selfish arse because he just so happens to enjoy life a little outside the cape really seems to be stretching and oversimplifying things to rationalize their own personal preferences. Nuperman has been written as a completely selfish are and a complete Dick at times ( feeding Lois to the Parasite to safeguard his secret ID ring any bells? Treating his friends like crap during TRUTH? Anyone remember that?).

    It doesn't come down to anything more complicated than off model writing by bad writers who are so hell bent to tell the story they want to tell they'll ignore core personality of a character. In other words,bad writing. The Superman shown in Aquaman recently was just plain written badly because the author wanted a particular story beat and result. If Nuperman was around still,that wouldn't have mattered at all to that story. Heck,the Author himself said as much.

    I'll say it again. I said it during the 5 years of Nuperman when i defended him from the people who oversimplified and tried to paint him as a bully and a jerk. When written properly,Superman is Superman is Superman. At their core both characters are identical. Literally the only way thery differ ultimately is one had a slightly different and longer history and a different romantic partner. Whenever Superman then was written as a jerk,it was due to bad writing. Not because the character was somehow flawed and defective.

    Fictional characters are not independent automatons that exist on their own. They are ultimately at the mercy of the people that write them. The problem is when writers ignore what a character is by ignoring that in order to tell a specific story. In this,BOTH Supermen have had that happen. Same with any fictional character with decades of history. Doesn't make one version superior or more " real" than another. That argument got me ticked off during the New 52 run and still makes a little annoyed now.


    The only point I'll concede a little on is " where was Superdad during fill-in-the-blank-event?". It's a good question that hasn't,up till now been satisfactory answered. Again,that comes down to poor writing. Poor writing is what kills Supermen. Not Doomsday or Kryptonite.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 10-30-2016 at 01:16 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
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  10. #85
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    The only point I'll concede a little on is " where was Superdad during fill-in-the-blank-event?". It's a good question that hasn't,up till now been satisfactory answered. Again,that comes down to poor writing. Poor writing is what kills Supermen. Not Doomsday or Kryptonite.
    Totally agree with what you said above (funny how fast people forget that Superman was willing to feed Lois to Parasite to save his secret identity).

    I see those lost years more as an opportunity than. It's been very well established that Superdad was out very much being Superman while he was hiding out, but it's not clear on what he was doing during events like Forever Evil (I honestly think Forever Evil is the only real event that they have to touch on). He seems to have an abundance of space friends and artifacts, so it's more than likely that he was off world. It's also been established that Lois and Clark have contingency plans and safe houses in place for when Clark isn't around, so that would explain how they stayed safe during Forever Evil if Clark was in fact off world.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    You would think,but superdad has already had problems with going to the core of the earth that nuperman didn't,or even pre flashpoint Superman wouldn't have
    He did? That is one weakness I have never heard about. Although I suppose it's not something that is going to come up a lot.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephens2177 View Post
    Question- how much more powerful was nuperman than superdad?
    Well he could certainly backhand/punch him back to earth during the final days of superman arc. I really thought one of them should have been thinking about the others strength experienced first hand but they were in a middle of a life and death battle. At least we didn't have them fighting each other like green lanterns of old to prove who was more super. Imagine nuperman screaming his power is more than 9000 or vice versa in those circumstances. Speaking of that I wonder if kon el eventually returns will he have to fight jon to claim mantle of superboyboy or will he accept him as his what brother? son? technically he is a clone so same person.

  13. #88
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I still don't get. The New 52 Superman was still as much a "part timer" as some say Superdad is. They can both be seen just relaxing or talking from time to time. They can both be seen leaving their relaxing or personal situation to go take care of business. As of Superman #7 we even see that Superdad doesn't always go to bed with Lois and Jon. We see that he'll stay up the whole night doing his job. Hell he even stops by to help each member of the JL out from whatever situation they're in. Then he makes sure everyone in Metropolis has slept soundly through the night and woken up rested for the day ahead. Only after that does return home to see his family that have already started the day without him. And even when he promises Lois that he's gonna spend the day without being a superhero, he still saves the day. It's in his very nature.

    So I don't get it. Should we look down on the New 52 Superman for all of the times he spent sleeping next to Wonder Woman? No. Or how about the fact that he spent five straight days working out underground instead of saving actual lives? No, right? Then surly we have to give him an ear full for all of the countless hours he's spent hanging out with his pal's Jimmy and Lois? No, because the New 52 Superman was just as much a "part timer" as any Superman with a secret identity. Just like Ascended pointed out, the only real heroes that are "full time" are like Hal and robots like Red Tornado.
    I really really wish we had a like button.

    Its almost like some are holding Nuperman to a different standard than Superdad. Nuperman is allowed to have friends to hang out with and a life away from Superheroing,but Superdad is a selfish jerk who only care for his own comfort. Sigh.

    By the standard some use, Nuperman should have never had a life as Clark Kent. He should have never had friendships with Lois and Jimmy . He should never have maintained his connections with Smallville and never gotten into a romantic relationship with Wonder Woman or entertained marriage to her.He should never had any attachments or distractions from his mission and lived life as Superman 24/7. After all to have such things and a private life where he has people who love him,or takes time away of any sort is selfish,right?

    But,i guess that only applies when the significant other is human,i guess.


    I understand the bitterness when it comes to how all of this went down...but it seems logic goes out the window.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 10-30-2016 at 07:12 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  14. #89
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Totally agree with what you said above (funny how fast people forget that Superman was willing to feed Lois to Parasite to save his secret identity).

    I see those lost years more as an opportunity than. It's been very well established that Superdad was out very much being Superman while he was hiding out, but it's not clear on what he was doing during events like Forever Evil (I honestly think Forever Evil is the only real event that they have to touch on). He seems to have an abundance of space friends and artifacts, so it's more than likely that he was off world. It's also been established that Lois and Clark have contingency plans and safe houses in place for when Clark isn't around, so that would explain how they stayed safe during Forever Evil if Clark was in fact off world.

    yeah,they need to address forever evil and Doomed. The rest of it I can buy as Superman not wanting to step on his ' brother's" turf...but if the world was truly in danger and Nuperman was out of the game,he would and should step up unless he was off world or having power issues.

    That's something that the people in charge should have considered honestly. Out of context,it doesn't look good that the top dog superhero of the DCU was MIA during two back to back world threatening catastrophes. It does make one wonder if ultimately those stories are eventually going to be struck from canon once REBIRTH gets to its destination.

    I wonder if ultimately the New 52 becomes DC's version of Heroes Reborn at Marvel. In other words,it all happened but only in the vaguest of sense and thus,has no real bearing on future stories going forward,beyond things like Snyder's Batman run.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 10-30-2016 at 07:21 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Its almost like some are holding Nuperman to a different standard than Superdad. Nuperman is allowed to have friends to hang out with and a life away from Superheroing,but Superdad is a selfish jerk who only care for his own comfort. Sigh.

    By the standard some use, Nuperman should have never had a life as Clark Kent. He should have never had friendships with Lois and Jimmy . He should never have maintained his connections with Smallville and never gotten into a romantic relationship with Wonder Woman or entertained marriage to her.He should never had any attachments or distractions from his mission and lived life as Superman 24/7. After all to have such things and a private life where he has people who love him,or takes time away of any sort is selfish,right?

    But,i guess that only applies when the significant other is human,i guess.


    I understand the bitterness when it comes to how all of this went down...but it seems logic goes out the window.

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