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  1. #106
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    I even remember Morrison saying that he intended for Nuperman to have lived most of his childhood as a normal kid physically, but the new twist was that he at least knew he wasn't from this world (didn't know where though). This was later retconed by Pak's secret origin, and Clark was again given powers at about the same age as post crisis Superman.

  2. #107
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Actually, he had powers from day one. With him breaking Martha's finger after they first find him. I think Pak gave him the best origin. It had just the right balance.
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  3. #108
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Actually, he had powers from day one. With him breaking Martha's finger after they first find him.
    You're right, I forgotten about that and the time he lifted the sofa in Pak's retcon.

    It's honestly never made much of a difference to me. However I do think Morrison had a far more fresh and novel approach than Pak. The idea was that Clark had no powers for even longer than Post-crisis, but the trade off was that he knew from the jump that he was not of this Earth. That's actually a fascinating and new interpretation, but it's subtle and elegant enough to seem like it was always there from the start. I find far more substance in it than I do a simple "super-baby." So, in that sense, I wasn't particularly happy that Pak changed it

  4. #109
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm not recalling Morrison writing Clark as normal with only the knowledge of his special heritage though. I mean, he was gored by a bull in early adolescence and survived so had early onset super strength. Also under Morrison's pen Clark in that same time period was visited by the Legion and flew by aid of a Legion ring at least once. So to be honest if Morrison said his intent was for Clark to live fairly normally on a physical level, he never really portrayed it as such during his run. I mean, if that was his intent but it was overruled I can understand that, but the idea never made it in into any of the pages of his run, so in the end Pak really didn't change or contradict much of anything that made it to print.
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  5. #110
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    That's because Morrison said in an interview that it was his intention. I'm guessing that Morrison intended for Clark to have gained his small bit of powers shortly before that time with the bull. Believe it or not Morrison is actually a big fan of the idea of Clark gaining his powers at puberty. This largely contradicts the idea that Morrison blindly follows Pre-Crisis ideas as if they were the bible. It was even Morrison's intention to have the Clark from All Star Superman only get his powers at about puberty (this is likely the reason why his New 52 Clark got them then. Another left over idea use. Though he changes it by letting Clark know about his otherworldly nature early). He called it "a farmer's son becoming an alien." Most of this can be found on his big multi-part interview called "All Star Memories." It's a fascinating read, and really beats back some of the wrongheaded assumptions some people have about Morrison's take on Superman.

    I doubt his idea was "overruled." I think he just didn't have space for it in his jam-packed run (the small flashback story wasn't even supposed to be there), and other writers just didn't have to follow it. I still think Pak took the most pedestrian take for his revision of the origin, though. I figured the fact that Morrison's Clark couldn't fly and needed armor early on was an indicator of how slow he intended his powers to grow at the start. I mean when post-crisis Superman was roughly that age (early 20s) he could already fly and he didn't need a cap to protect himself from stronger gun fire. Then after the New 52 starts to push himself, I thought it was pretty clearly implied that his powers grew to accommodate as if he were doing resistance training. That, to me, seemed to be the intention.

  6. #111
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    It might just be me, but I'm not really seeing the novelty of Clark being normal aside from knowing he's not from earth. As far as the industry goes I'm pretty sure most heroes had relatively normal childhoods until some event pushed them into the super category far outnumber the kids who had unusual abilities or were in general involved with the supernatural from birth. Childhoods like Clark and Diana's usually are worth looking into precisely because it something you haven't seen before and as far as Clark goes it's just interesting seeing Martha and Jon have to raise a kid who's so very different from anything either of them have ever experienced. I thought Pak's bit with Clark breaking Martha's finger but instantly realizing he did something wrong was interesting as was Martha's reaction to it. Frankly I'd rather they give this Clark his proper childhood rather than the same old, same old we get with The Hulk, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Batman, The Robins, etc. I can kind of get the less is more approach but this is all just self mutilation, let Clark have his full and proper childhood, Krytpo, wacky super adventures as a kid, Legion, all that good stuff; those are all stories waiting to be told.

    Though I'm not really a fan of Clark calling himself Superboy, maybe something like Helios or Sol and then changes over to Superman when he's an adult.
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  7. #112
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    For my money, American Alien is the only modern day rendition of a really young Clark with powers (granted he only started to get his powers when he was about 7 or 8). The reason it was so fascinating was because of how Landis framed the idea of powers at this age. Just like Morrison, all Landis did was add in a subtle little upset to the normal idea, and it gave it new life. He essentially made the idea of powers akin to parents having to adjust to a "special needs" child. His powers never came off as "and one day young Clark Kent will grow to be a big strong Superman, you just wait an see." His powers not being so obviously tactical or even useful made the fact that Clark even refines them to where he gets them, and uses them to help people a fun triumph in itself. It was also EXTREMELY smart to play things mostly from the Kent's POV. Those years are actually far more fascinating when it's from their POV.

    But Pak's little part where baby Clark feels bad for hurting Martha implies a level of emotional control that sucks out a lot of the fun and drama from those years. It's like, dude we get it, he's gonna be Superman when he grow up, so you don't need to beat me over the head with it before he's even potty trained. That sh!t's almost as bad as some destiny carp. It's uninspired, to me, to just constantly hint at (like a megaphone) his Superman job. It's takes me out of that fascinating time of him being a child with these strange powers.

    It's also wildly fascinating how Landis gives Clark a pediatrician and lets quite a few people know about Clark's powers. These are the sort of alterations that, to me, make for interesting new stories.


  8. #113
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Also for the record, Morrison's Clark may not have had powers during his early years, but he said that young Clark would've had his indestructible blanket everywhere he went. He compared it to the kid from Charlie Brown. He'd have gone on little adventures with this super blanket like the kid from Action Comics issue #0. Add in the fact that he knew he was some sort of alien, and that 's a modern day take on a young Clark that I find fresh and novel too.

    And for clarity sake, I am not at all against the idea of him being Superboy at some point in his younger years.

  9. #114
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    It might just be me, but I'm not really seeing the novelty of Clark being normal aside from knowing he's not from earth. As far as the industry goes I'm pretty sure most heroes had relatively normal childhoods until some event pushed them into the super category far outnumber the kids who had unusual abilities or were in general involved with the supernatural from birth. Childhoods like Clark and Diana's usually are worth looking into precisely because it something you haven't seen before and as far as Clark goes it's just interesting seeing Martha and Jon have to raise a kid who's so very different from anything either of them have ever experienced. I thought Pak's bit with Clark breaking Martha's finger but instantly realizing he did something wrong was interesting as was Martha's reaction to it. Frankly I'd rather they give this Clark his proper childhood rather than the same old, same old we get with The Hulk, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Batman, The Robins, etc. I can kind of get the less is more approach but this is all just self mutilation, let Clark have his full and proper childhood, Krytpo, wacky super adventures as a kid, Legion, all that good stuff; those are all stories waiting to be told.

    Though I'm not really a fan of Clark calling himself Superboy, maybe something like Helios or Sol and then changes over to Superman when he's an adult.
    Ha, what about Skyboy?

    Thing is, normal isn't typical. The Robins, Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, Peter Parker, and Bruce Banner were all shaped by traumatic, abnormal events in childhood. Diana, Arthur, and most X-Men were also unlike normal kids.

    Not that I don't like the tragic strangeness and alienation from Morrison and the 2013 film, but I'd defend Superman as working beautifully as a regular kid with two loving parents, who instead of going through something that makes him, realizes who he has been all along.

  10. #115
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Not that I don't like the tragic strangeness and alienation from Morrison and the 2013 film, but I'd defend Superman as working beautifully as a regular kid with two loving parents, who instead of going through something that makes him, realizes who he has been all along.
    To be fair, Im pretty sure this applies to just about every version of Superman.

    It doesnt matter if the Kents die when Clark is young, or if he has adventures in the distant future with costumed space-kids. He can have a relatively normal childhood or a childhood sprinkled with the strange and fantastic. He can find his way on his own or have a helping hand from others who fill in the missing pieces of Clark's origins. However it plays out, Superman is always the realization of who and what Clark Kent is.
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  11. #116
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Ha, what about Skyboy?

    Thing is, normal isn't typical. The Robins, Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, Peter Parker, and Bruce Banner were all shaped by traumatic, abnormal events in childhood. Diana, Arthur, and most X-Men were also unlike normal kids.

    Not that I don't like the tragic strangeness and alienation from Morrison and the 2013 film, but I'd defend Superman as working beautifully as a regular kid with two loving parents, who instead of going through something that makes him, realizes who he has been all along.
    I'm all for Morrison's All Star Superman take on it. His idea of "a farmer's son who becomes an alien" at puberty is just so clean and elegant. I think having the drama of his younger years come more from him learning pretty simple life lessons is the way to go. Then at the end you can cap it off with having Jonathan Kent die of heart failure if you like to give Clark his final lesson (this also works well later in Clark's life). It's unlike Bruce or Barry who are gain more of an obsession or a mission after the death of their parents.

    I find that less is actually sometimes more when it comes to Superman. Too often overcompensation and saturation is what messes with his origin. This doesn't mean you can't have your time traveling stories, Krypto, and what not during his youth, but I think you gotta know how to place your shots.

  12. #117
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    You can also not come from trauma, or bad parents, and yet not be fulfilled. The idea that the Kents need to be prophetic themselves is strange to me. Clark should grow up kinda isolated and really lonely. He's an alien from a highly advanced civilization, living on a farm on some dull planet called Earth. It shouldn't be a Norman Rockwell painting, but it also doesn't need to be misery.

    He just came of age and moved away and started his life. He loves Ma and Pa Kent for who they are and what they did for him, but they didn't create Superman.

  13. #118
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    That's why I think throwing in death clutters the idea of Clark becoming Superman. I don't feel like a lesson it teaches would be necessary, whether or not they emphasize that he grew up different.

  14. #119
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    No op your not the only one. I try to find any characterization to like but all that is left for clark is just perpetual fear over his family and nothing else. Any apperances of him being a hero are brief and anything else is dedicated to family time.
    I find John an annoying addition just simply because he seems to be the one in constant danger as he has replaced his mother in that department. I doubt that John will always be in trouble given his growing powers but given recent issues he seems to have inherited the other ability from his mother which is her ability to be automatically good at everything so that's something to look forward to.
    I just find that the family dynamic replacing what it means to be a lone survivor of an alien race or a super powered man being a hero just dull and I have nothing to look forward to in future issues apart from the odd sci fi adventure.

  15. #120
    Fantastic Member Will J.'s Avatar
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    Not at all, and for the same reasons as you and others have posted in this thread.

    Yeah, I'm feeling too lazy to spell it out.

    But it's Kid_Quantum's point about the characters being used as mouthpieces to try and admonish fans for liking a different interpretation of Superman that still grates, even now.
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