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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by W8IN4KAL-EL View Post
    Am I the only one that hates Superdad? I mean I can't stand him.. This is not the Superman that I grew up reading 42 years ago.Jon is annoying and I find it hard in believing that someone with a human mother would have powers yet alone better than his dads(i.e his speed and also able to hurt him with his heat vision).What's next..He is going to be stronger than him?I would more readily buy it if it was Superman AND Wonder Woman's offspring.If this is the 'classic' Superman why is he wearing that stupid,pajama looking suit? Wouldn't he have the original (red underwear and all)suit? Why would he even change it?I pray that he is an alternate one from a parallel planet.
    Nah. You're not the only one. He doesn't interest me either. I much preferred the N52 Superman and would rather read on about his adventures ... but to each their own, I guess

  2. #122
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    You're right, I forgotten about that and the time he lifted the sofa in Pak's retcon.

    It's honestly never made much of a difference to me. However I do think Morrison had a far more fresh and novel approach than Pak. The idea was that Clark had no powers for even longer than Post-crisis, but the trade off was that he knew from the jump that he was not of this Earth. That's actually a fascinating and new interpretation, but it's subtle and elegant enough to seem like it was always there from the start. I find far more substance in it than I do a simple "super-baby." So, in that sense, I wasn't particularly happy that Pak changed it
    I think that was going to be one of the premises of Superman Lives. Kelex comes to Earth with him and he basically knows he's an alien from day one. Have no idea if he had powers though.
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  3. #123
    Incredible Member Grim Ghost's Avatar
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    You are not alone, but I've already gone into the reasons why I hate this concept extensively in other threads.

  4. #124
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I talk up how much I miss Morrison's Superman in just about every thread I post in, for good or ill. I don't hate the Rebirth Superman anymore, but I just really dejected every time I think about it. Yeah, the likes of Escape from Dinosaur Island are cool and fun, but there is absolutely zero reason they couldn't have done that with the Superman I came to love.

    Here's to the Real Steel Deal.

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  5. #125
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Yeah, the likes of Escape from Dinosaur Island are cool and fun, but there is absolutely zero reason they couldn't have done that with the Superman I came to love.
    He didn't have a son.

  6. #126
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    He didn't have a son.
    I don't think that Jon's presence is in any way what makes stories like Escape from Dinosaur Island cool. It's the willingness to put Superman in a bananas situation and let him do his super-thing, without the deconstruction that Pak's run of Action and almost all of Truth was built on. You could run that same story without Jon, and just have the late Superman run around Dinosaur Island with Krypto and it'd be just as good. And I'd enjoy it more for having my Superman of choice, though obviously I'm biased here.

    I also maintain that if they were going to do "Superman and Son" stories, (a perfectly excellent idea, by the way) they should have done that in 2011 by bringing Chris back instead of rebooting the universe. Chris Kent was a more thematically appealing concept than Jon Kent II is at any rate, and if they'd never rebooted the universe, I'd never have known the late Superman to miss him, you know?
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  7. #127
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    After Morrison's origin story the sky was the limit really. With what he wrote, the foundation he created, light-hearted and out-of-this-world stuff was ingrained, and just ripe for the taking. For various reasons they never fully capitalized. I blame a lot of it on the perpetual crossover model that still had yet to die when the New 52 got started. Some of it of course on just flat out bad writing. But more than anything else I don't think anyone was ever allowed to get a footing under them and just tell stand-alone tales for their own individual titles. Nothing was ever allowed to establish its unique feel before being sucked into an event. That sort of thing was sabotaging and killing the character even before they made the decision to sabotage then kill him for real.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-02-2016 at 06:58 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  8. #128
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I also maintain that if they were going to do "Superman and Son" stories, (a perfectly excellent idea, by the way) they should have done that in 2011
    I'll do you one better and say they should have done it in 2006-07, after Infinite Crisis and One Year Later. That was a perfect window to advance Clark and Lois' story and introduce a kid without having to deal with Lois being pregnant. Of course, then you'd be left with a infant and not a kid old enough to wear a costume, but that can be easily fixed with a time travel story. It also would have given us a decade of Lois and Clark being married without a kid after a six year long engagement, so it would have fit the timetable too.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  9. #129
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I don't think that Jon's presence is in any way what makes stories like Escape from Dinosaur Island cool. It's the willingness to put Superman in a bananas situation and let him do his super-thing, without the deconstruction that Pak's run of Action and almost all of Truth was built on. You could run that same story without Jon, and just have the late Superman run around Dinosaur Island with Krypto and it'd be just as good. And I'd enjoy it more for having my Superman of choice, though obviously I'm biased here.

    I also maintain that if they were going to do "Superman and Son" stories, (a perfectly excellent idea, by the way) they should have done that in 2011 by bringing Chris back instead of rebooting the universe. Chris Kent was a more thematically appealing concept than Jon Kent II is at any rate, and if they'd never rebooted the universe, I'd never have known the late Superman to miss him, you know?
    Hey, you said absolutely zero and I gave you one lol, the story as we received it totally revolved around father and son.

  10. #130
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Hey, you said absolutely zero and I gave you one lol, the story as we received it totally revolved around father and son.
    Ach, twisting my words against me, eh? True enough, but you know I meant "they could have told that type of story without the father/son theme central to the Rebirth Supes" and not literally "this story could be exactly the same if they drew Superman younger and never killed him", haha! :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    After Morrison's origin story the sky was the limit really. With what he wrote, the foundation he created, light-hearted and out-of-this-world stuff was ingrained, and just ripe for the taking. For various reasons they never fully capitalized.
    Yeah. You know, I even like most of the New 52's Superman stuff, but my love was always based in the understanding that at any moment any writer could draw on the energy, drive and feel Morrison built into the character. And for various reasons, some of which you said, nobody ever did. And now nobody ever will. Aw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'll do you one better and say they should have done it in 2006-07, after Infinite Crisis and One Year Later. That was a perfect window to advance Clark and Lois' story and introduce a kid without having to deal with Lois being pregnant. Of course, then you'd be left with a infant and not a kid old enough to wear a costume, but that can be easily fixed with a time travel story. It also would have given us a decade of Lois and Clark being married without a kid after a six year long engagement, so it would have fit the timetable too.
    Now that you mention it- yeah, they should have. I mean, I'll never support Kal having a kid naturally over adopting one, but they wasted Chris when they had him and they could have been telling stories exactly (and I don't mean that literally now either) like they are now, kept him around instead of zoning him at the end of Last Son, and have it make a hell of a lot more sense than it does now with all the hypertime and the parallel universes. Heck, they could even keep Kon around if Chris/Jon II became "Superlad" or something like that.

    I feel like Rebirth is DC's attempt to have their cake, not after eating it, but after throwing it out like ten years ago and trying out various other cakes before finally saying "you know what? That cake we had ten years ago was pretty good." But that's a stupid analogy, haha!
    Last edited by Adekis; 11-03-2016 at 12:13 AM.
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  11. #131
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Yeah. You know, I even like most of the New 52's Superman stuff, but my love was always based in the understanding that at any moment any writer could draw on the energy, drive and feel Morrison built into the character. And for various reasons, some of which you said, nobody ever did. And now nobody ever will. Aw.
    Pak and Kuder tried. Lawd did they try. And even got close a few times. But each time some momentum built up, bam. Shitty crossover.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  12. #132
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    I totally blame Pak and Yang for those crossovers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Ach, twisting my words against me, eh? True enough, but you know I meant "they could have told that type of story without the father/son theme central to the Rebirth Supes" and not literally "this story could be exactly the same if they drew Superman younger and never killed him", haha! :P
    Yeah I get your point in general and I'm still interested in adventure stories starring New 52 Superman, but especially on the topic of the different Supermen I see statements like "they could have done this story without that change" and it's not really fair because this story is that change, and something similar isn't necessarily "just as good." If the same or different creators "could have" but simply didn't want to, I'd argue that they technically "couldn't have," you know?

    With regards to having an adopted kid over a natural one: I don't think having a child completes any man or woman in or outside of marriage. But we never had an indication that they didn't want a natural child, and now know clearly that they did. So really, it's something good for them and I like a large measure of happiness for my favorite characters.

  13. #133
    You guessed it mr_crisp's Avatar
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    Batman is a father and no one complains. Superman is a father and people complain.
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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_crisp View Post
    Batman is a father and no one complains. Superman is a father and people complain.
    I think it's because Batman has had young boys around him for decades now,and Superman has always been just him,until now.

    Or not.

    Could be that as the years go by ppl like to bitch about something more and more

  15. #135
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_crisp View Post
    Batman is a father and no one complains. Superman is a father and people complain.
    People did complain. People still do complain. Not as much because its an easier fit because Batman has been raising foster children since Dick Grayson first came on the scene decades ago, though.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

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