New Avengers 17 spoilers/Loooove

[CentralPower]

Eh. I didn't like how the Maker was completely jobbed out to Dacosta. Made him look more like a run of the mill small time villain and not an evil genius.
It's the same thing that happened with Hydra in Secret Warriors. It sucked there too.
You don't build up an enemy throughout your entire run and then in the final few issues have them seem to have the intelligence of a 5 year old.

Maker is not staying down. This issue telegraphs that something is coming up. The question is how extensive that arc will be. Will it be a main event, encompassing multiple titles, or limited to Ewing's series? Either way, Ewing is definitely going in an almost Morrisonian direction with the Maker needing to adjust to the "rules" of a new universe.


If the Maker was created across multiple timelines, what about "nice Reed"?

[Ciriaco]

Maker is not staying down. This issue telegraphs that something is coming up. The question is how extensive that arc will be. Will it be a main event, encompassing multiple titles, or limited to Ewing's series? Either way, Ewing is definitely going in an almost Morrisonian direction with the Maker needing to adjust to the "rules" of a new universe.


If the Maker was created across multiple timelines, what about "nice Reed"?

I wonder if he could be "the one who is one" (in contrast to the Maker) and thus the Cosmic Jailer who has chained Eternity. (Idea from itspopularnowitsucks here)

[Fokken]

Did anyone else interpret the Maker as.....incomplete?
Like, the Molecule Man split him up in "slices" across dimensions/realities/whatever -- and I though that was also implying that the Maker that we see, here, taking on Roberto's New Avengers etc, is .....not what he should/could be.

Like, he was divided up and therefor not his level best. And part of his goal is to unify dimensions and in doing so reclaim his "wholeness".
And that is partly why he's getting trounced so bad by 'Berto's counter-schemes. No? Maybe? Thoughts?

[CentralPower]

Interesting idea. And, if we play the "split Maker" idea off against the idea of "Reed is the one who is one", and keep in mind that they are variations of the same guy....


Similarly, "the one" could be Franklin. (Or, it could be a completely new character.)

I wonder if the upcoming war will end up retro-actively filling in the lost 8 months.

[NexusTenebrare]

To be fair, part of the point of this arc was the Maker learning that, in this reality, he is a run-of-the-mill villain, of the type that heroes defeat all the time. In the Ultimate Universe, he was a huge threat who blew up cities. In the main universe? He's Tuesday. He hasn't really learned the rules of his new home yet. Once he does? Then he'll be a more serious threat.

That's a really weird argument to me.
Are you suggesting that the heroes in the Ultimate universe were bad at heroing? That they were dumb?
It's not like the laws of physics were diferent from one universe to the other. They' weren't that diferent.
He was a super genius in the Ultimate universe and there's no reason he wouldn't be one in the 616 universe. He should be up there with Doom, but he's barely showing more intelligence that someone like the Hood.

Did anyone else interpret the Maker as.....incomplete?
Like, the Molecule Man split him up in "slices" across dimensions/realities/whatever -- and I though that was also implying that the Maker that we see, here, taking on Roberto's New Avengers etc, is .....not what he should/could be.

Like, he was divided up and therefor not his level best. And part of his goal is to unify dimensions and in doing so reclaim his "wholeness".
And that is partly why he's getting trounced so bad by 'Berto's counter-schemes. No? Maybe? Thoughts?

This is pretty much the only way I can accept what happened, but it still feels lazy to me.

[Ettel]

Are you suggesting that the heroes in the Ultimate universe were bad at heroing? That they were dumb?
It's not like the laws of physics were diferent from one universe to the other. They' weren't that diferent.
He was a super genius in the Ultimate universe and there's no reason he wouldn't be one in the 616 universe. He should be up there with Doom, but he's barely showing more intelligence that someone like the Hood.

Actually the maker implied that he wasn't as smart as he was in the Ultimate universe. That the reason the city is so silly now too.

[4sake Baned]

Did anyone else interpret the Maker as.....incomplete?
Like, the Molecule Man split him up in "slices" across dimensions/realities/whatever -- and I though that was also implying that the Maker that we see, here, taking on Roberto's New Avengers etc, is .....not what he should/could be.

Like, he was divided up and therefor not his level best. And part of his goal is to unify dimensions and in doing so reclaim his "wholeness".
And that is partly why he's getting trounced so bad by 'Berto's counter-schemes. No? Maybe? Thoughts?

That way I took it aswell..

[Tiamatty]

That's a really weird argument to me.
Are you suggesting that the heroes in the Ultimate universe were bad at heroing? That they were dumb?
It's not like the laws of physics were diferent from one universe to the other. They' weren't that diferent.
He was a super genius in the Ultimate universe and there's no reason he wouldn't be one in the 616 universe. He should be up there with Doom, but he's barely showing more intelligence that someone like the Hood.

The laws of physics are different. He flat-out said that the main universe just works differently. That it's more "fantastic."

[CentralPower]

Did Ewing (through the Maker) specify "physics"? I generally recall the scene you are talking about. Maker said that something was different, and he had a harder time thinking. But, I do not recall it being "physics". Either way, it was the stated-on-page reason for Maker being less dangerous is new-Marvel than he was in the old Ultimates.

A similar idea was brought up in "Squadron Supreme". The Blur (a product of the 80s) was musing (in first person 80s fashion) about how the world he was in (current Marvel) was different from the world he was from (the old "New Universe" comics). Besides the fact that Pittsburgh was not a smoking crater, the new world was just different from his old world.


In both cases, Marvel is taking a page from Morrison (which is funny, given how Quesada and Morrison do not play nice together).