J. Scott Campbell Rethinks Riri Williams

[WestPhillyPunisher]

The problem is when the subject is a minor, like RiRi who is supposed to be, I think, a 15 year old girl genius. That moves it into creepy territory.

Would you like to see Sasha Obama depicted like that?

Of course not! But again, what did Marvel expect from Campbell? Not that I'm defending the guy, but, to quote Kyle Reese from the first Terminator movie, that's what he does. That's all he does.

[aja_christopher]

Looks good -- and a lot more original.

I always hoped Campbell -- who I've liked since Gen 13 -- and Humberto Ramos (who I've liked since DV8) would develop their style a bit more, like Travis Charest did.

Even Charest's more recent "cheesecake" is way better than what he was doing back on Wildstorm.



That said, Charest probably couldn't illustrate a monthly to save his life, so I guess you take the good with the bad.

[Iron Maiden]

Of course not! But again, what did Marvel expect from Campbell? Not that I'm defending the guy, but, to quote Kyle Reese from the first Terminator movie, that's what he does. That's all he does.

I think that's all people seem to focus on with the latest controversy but Campbell had a pretty decent run as cover artist for ASM when JMS was writing. I think he did some Fantastic Four covers around that time too.

[t hedge coke]

The problem is when the subject is a minor, like RiRi who is supposed to be, I think, a 15 year old girl genius. That moves it into creepy territory.

I agree with WPP, but, not knowing the book in question I can see your side too. However it is rated "Teen" so I also, again, don't see the issue.

Enhanced for emphasis, but this is kind of at the heart of part of this issue, I think. It's rated "Teen" (like everything, virtually, at Marvel, because Teen just means "please don't sue"), and it features a teen, it may even be read by some teens. But, J Scott Campbell isn't a teen, is he?

Comics has a sad, weird history of normalizing oversexualized teenage girls. Micronauts/X-Men, which is a toy tie-in comic, has teen girls walking around in their high-cut underwear while Prof X, evil, makes them orgasm until they serve him. We couldn't even, back in the day, have 16 yr old Kitty Pryde vs Mojo without getting nonstop panty shots (seriously, go look at that oneshot again). And, when the audience is teens, or younger, we just normalized this in. But that doesn't mean it was a good thing then, or now. It just means we thought it was normal and didn't think about the forty year olds drawing the stuff or writing it.

I like Ultimate Spidey fine, though I like the later artists on MJ more, and I didn't really think about why until a recent reread when I noticed Bagley's confession, in the backmatter of an issue of "I'm a pervert" "She's fifteen!" is his whole take on the character. She's just kewpie fantasy girl. Barely a step up from Knockout, who he co-created, the girl with giant hair, massive jugs, and no waist to speak of who had no personality beyond finding Doc Ock hot.

I still like Bagley and his work. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. But, he's internalized some stuff, I'm sure, and he's actively normalized some things that result in us, on occasion, wondering if sexing up teenage girls is okeh if the book is aimed at/approved for teens but is in no way a book about sex or sexuality. An argument I never hear about teen male superheroes at Marvel. "Well, yeah, his pants are riding up into his crotch tightly enough to make folds, and he's exposing his stomach for us and stretched out to model proportions, but... it's a Rated T book."

We don't do that, and it's not because there are essential differences between boys and girls and one just has more skin or tighter pants by nature.

[Don C]

The complaint against the first cover was that her hips are thrust out, forming a V that points to her vagina. I wonder how long it takes before people realize that her legs in the second cover are....a V pointing to her vagina.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The complaint against the first cover was that her hips are thrust out, forming a V that points to get vagina. I wonder how long it takes before people realize that her legs in the second cover are....a V pointing to her vagina.

Both that and the armor cover was the same essentially. It was pretty funny and as you pointed out , this cover is basically the same type of work Campbell has always done with female comic characters. I mean I saw this cover and thought the same deal.

[ed2962]

SJWs? Single Jehovah's Witnesses?

They read Jack Chick Comics!

[ed2962]

Hey, I buy comics.

Stop shoving your tumblr agenda down Scott's throat, hipster!

[bloodofthegods]

Stop shoving your tumblr agenda down Scott's throat, hipster!

Like he's tried with his last two threads and his posting history on this forum?

[Mister Mets]

The problem is when the subject is a minor, like RiRi who is supposed to be, I think, a 15 year old girl genius. That moves it into creepy territory.

Would you like to see Sasha Obama depicted like that?

To be fair, the lead of Gen 13 was a girl genius.

[GreenLanternRanger]

That is a much better cover then the first one. I hope Campbell is able to get Marvel to use it. While he draws characters a little too long & stretched out for my taste (not everyone is Mr. Fantastic Scott) he is a talanted artist. If he would focus more on stuff like this and less on the elongated torso fanservice that would be great.

[Carabas]

To be fair, the lead of Gen 13 was a girl genius.

I... never realised that.

[Paradox]

WestPhillyPunisher lives in the now:

Campbell's been doing cheesecake stuff for years (i.e. Danger Girl), but NOW people complain? What the hell did they expect?

I've seen people complaining the whole time. He got a little less attention when his "look-alike/similar, but worse" Michael Turner was still alive, though.

The day of the anorexic sex giraffe is well in the past. Let's leave it there.

[t hedge coke]

To be fair, the lead of Gen 13 was a girl genius.

Who was usually embarrassed not just with how often her clothes got ripped up, but just being tall and fit and therefore immediately sexualized by everybody around her.

Gail Simone, later, really hit hard on that one, in her revamp. It was just a teensy bit lip-servicey to begin with, though. Little bit.

I'll actually give Gen-13 a pass in a way that I wouldn't Riri art, though, in that the story itself, the tone of the book was sexual and sexed up. It wasn't just about teenagers, it was about awkward, horny teenagers stuck living together. And, it's competition was... well, Gen X, which was a fun book but filled with very safe representations of teenagers (and Emma Frost in big sweaters, mumus, etc). Even the anti domestic abuse story in Gen-13 was more blunt and direct than the one that ran in x-titles around the same time.

Story and tone of the book, itself, should probably come before the tone given in a cover image.

[jeanvaljean]

Of course not! But again, what did Marvel expect from Campbell? Not that I'm defending the guy, but, to quote Kyle Reese from the first Terminator movie, that's what he does. That's all he does.

His re-think proves that's not the case.