Examples of Pre-Flashpoint Canon Reasserting Itself in the DC Universe

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The general idea and team roster? Sure. But the entire run, every single story? Did they meet Freedy Freeman/CM3? Did The Ray keep an eye on them? Did they have an adventure where the JSA turned into infants? Was Cassandra Cain Batgirl?

Exactly. The broad strokes of the prior Young Justice continuity is back, but the exact details, as they always are, have been revised and updated, most significantly with Cassie now being the granddaughter of Zeus as opposed to his daughter.

If anyone is expecting a complete reversion to Pre-Flashpoint continuity, you're setting yourself up to be disappointed. That's not how DC's continuity revamps work or have ever worked. It's always a new deck of cards every time, reshuffled with the strongest elements of what works best in the past.

DC's continuity has always worked this way. It's always been a buffet of various eras being used, re-purposed, and remixed. Sometimes parts are discarded and replaced with something new, then swapped back when that doesn't work, but even then it's not exactly the way it was before.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The general idea and team roster? Sure. But the entire run, every single story? Did they meet Freedy Freeman/CM3? Did The Ray keep an eye on them? Did they have an adventure where the JSA turned into infants? Was Cassandra Cain Batgirl?

Maybe. We don't know. But if the book itself says that Young Justice is back and the only thing we have as reference for a Young Justice team is the previous series, then the common sense conclusion is that that series, or at least a good bulk of it, is back in continuity. Who knows, Cass Cain could have been Batgirl. They might have pulled a Tim Drake with her and given her back her Pre-Flashpoint origin. After all, this issue did exactly that with Conner. Maybe they did meet Freddy Freeman. Maybe they were supervised by Red Tornado and The Ray. Maybe they did meet Secret and Empress and Arrowette.

And since Bendis seems to mostly write as if neither the Crisis nor Flashpoint happened, its not unreasonable to say that those things may actually be canon again. Don't understand how that's such a hard concept.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

And since Bendis seems to mostly write as if neither the Crisis nor Flashpoint happened, its not unreasonable to say that those things may actually be canon again. Don't understand how that's such a hard concept.

I don't think anyone is taking issue with the idea that the pre-Flashpoint Young Justice continuity is returning, but rather that all of it is back, particularly given how Bendis is sticking with the more recent idea that Cassie is Zeus's granddaughter. In the end though, it doesn't really matter. Given how few fans there are of the New 52 incarnations of these characters, this is a win-win for everyone, irregardless of how you view the specifics of this particular continuity reshuffle.

It'll be real interesting to see how Bendis tiptoes around all this without stepping on whatever Johns is cooking up in Doomsday Clock. The longer this drags on, I am becoming more receptive to Preist's idea to just have Batman turn to the reader and say "We &^%ed up! Sorry!" and then move on.

[Dataweaver]

YJ#1 referenced seven continuity-altering Crises, and indicated that the inhabitants of Gemworld are aware of them. Between that and the fact that Bart (the guy who was recently freed from the Speed Force) is the one referencing Young Justice and getting the gang back together, it's still possible that PAD's YJ is still out of continuity, and that Conner (by way of Gemworld) and Bart (by way of the Speed Force) are pre-Flashpoint refugees. In support of that position, note that the police that Bart saved didn't recognize him. Tim seemed to recognize him, but might have been thinking of Barr-Tor for all we know.

And this is coming from someone who wants PAD's YJ restored to continuity. I'm still hoping that, by the end of this introductory story arc, the bulk of that run will be back; but I don't think it has happened quite yet.

[byrd156]

YJ#1 referenced seven continuity-altering Crises, and indicated that the inhabitants of Gemworld are aware of them. Between that and the fact that Bart (the guy who was recently freed from the Speed Force) is the one referencing Young Justice and getting the gang back together, it's still possible that PAD's YJ is still out of continuity, and that Conner (by way of Gemworld) and Bart (by way of the Speed Force) are pre-Flashpoint refugees. In support of that position, note that the police that Bart saved didn't recognize him. Tim seemed to recognize him, but might have been thinking of Barr-Tor for all we know.

And this is coming from someone who wants PAD's YJ restored to continuity. I'm still hoping that, by the end of this introductory story arc, the bulk of that run will be back; but I don't think it has happened quite yet.

I know DC wasn't planning this but doing another Convergence style event story focusing on survivors of Pre-Flashpoint would be something I want to read about.

[Konja7]

YJ#1 referenced seven continuity-altering Crises, and indicated that the inhabitants of Gemworld are aware of them. Between that and the fact that Bart (the guy who was recently freed from the Speed Force) is the one referencing Young Justice and getting the gang back together, it's still possible that PAD's YJ is still out of continuity, and that Conner (by way of Gemworld) and Bart (by way of the Speed Force) are pre-Flashpoint refugees. In support of that position, note that the police that Bart saved didn't recognize him. Tim seemed to recognize him, but might have been thinking of Barr-Tor for all we know.

And this is coming from someone who wants PAD's YJ restored to continuity. I'm still hoping that, by the end of this introductory story arc, the bulk of that run will be back; but I don't think it has happened quite yet.

I guess Bart, like Wally, is a refugee of Pre-Flashpoint continuity. Although his memory should change when he appear on the current continuity.

So far, I don't think we can confirm Conner is a Pre-Flashpoint refugee. We only know he dissapeared and was in Gemworld

[Rend20]

I guess Bart, like Wally, is a refugee of Pre-Flashpoint continuity.

Wally technically isn't a refugee as it was established he got rebooted like everyone else. The only reason he has memories of the Pre-Flashpoint timeline is because he was adrift in the time-stream and got stuck in the Speed Force. And since Wally's history as the Flash never happened in the new timeline, I'm not sure how Bart could retain his history in it which would mean he'd have to be a refugee.

[Konja7]

Maybe. We don't know. But if the book itself says that Young Justice is back and the only thing we have as reference for a Young Justice team is the previous series, then the common sense conclusion is that that series, or at least a good bulk of it, is back in continuity. Who knows, Cass Cain could have been Batgirl. They might have pulled a Tim Drake with her and given her back her Pre-Flashpoint origin. After all, this issue did exactly that with Conner. Maybe they did meet Freddy Freeman. Maybe they were supervised by Red Tornado and The Ray. Maybe they did meet Secret and Empress and Arrowette.

And since Bendis seems to mostly write as if neither the Crisis nor Flashpoint happened, its not unreasonable to say that those things may actually be canon again. Don't understand how that's such a hard concept.

Well, Freedy is blonde now, that would be a change in the story.

The problem is that the moment we confirm that one of these things did not happen (which can happen on other comics), we will see that all previous history of Young Justice can't return.


In fact, Bendis like to write his own stort, so it wouldn't be strange he writes stories never happened in the past of Young Justice.

[Konja7]

Wally technically isn't a refugee as it was established he got rebooted like everyone else. The only reason he has memories of the Pre-Flashpoint timeline is because he was adrift in the time-stream and got stuck in the Speed Force. And since Wally's history as the Flash never happened in the new timeline, I'm not sure how Bart could retain his history in it which would mean he'd have to be a refugee.

As the story of Wally was rebooted, it's pretty likely the story of Bart would be rebooted too. He seems to have an story with YJ4, since Tim recognized him.

Of course, the story of Bart will probably be different, but this happen with other characters too.

[Dred]

The weird thing about Bart is if he was a refugee/survivor you imagine he'd be wearing the Kid Flash outfit. Much like how Wally being in his Kid Flash outfit showed how he WASN'T a survivor, but a member of this universe who never grew up to be The Flash.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I don't think anyone is taking issue with the idea that the pre-Flashpoint Young Justice continuity is returning, but rather that all of it is back, particularly given how Bendis is sticking with the more recent idea that Cassie is Zeus's granddaughter. In the end though, it doesn't really matter. Given how few fans there are of the New 52 incarnations of these characters, this is a win-win for everyone, irregardless of how you view the specifics of this particular continuity reshuffle.

It'll be real interesting to see how Bendis tiptoes around all this without stepping on whatever Johns is cooking up in Doomsday Clock. The longer this drags on, I am becoming more receptive to Preist's idea to just have Batman turn to the reader and say "We &^%ed up! Sorry!" and then move on.

All I said was that Peter David's YJ was back in continuity. Whether that means that all of it or only part of it is back, it still means that at least some of it is back.

YJ#1 referenced seven continuity-altering Crises, and indicated that the inhabitants of Gemworld are aware of them. Between that and the fact that Bart (the guy who was recently freed from the Speed Force) is the one referencing Young Justice and getting the gang back together, it's still possible that PAD's YJ is still out of continuity, and that Conner (by way of Gemworld) and Bart (by way of the Speed Force) are pre-Flashpoint refugees. In support of that position, note that the police that Bart saved didn't recognize him. Tim seemed to recognize him, but might have been thinking of Barr-Tor for all we know.

And this is coming from someone who wants PAD's YJ restored to continuity. I'm still hoping that, by the end of this introductory story arc, the bulk of that run will be back; but I don't think it has happened quite yet.

Except Tim also remembers Conner apparently.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Bart (by way of the Speed Force) are pre-Flashpoint refugees.

People forget, but Bart was always immune to temporal alterations. No matter what changes happen to the timeline, he remains the same.

Since Flashpoint was revealed to be nothing more than a timeline change, this could very well be the case if they decide to go that way.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

All I said was that Peter David's YJ was back in continuity. Whether that means that all of it or only part of it is back, it still means that at least some of it is back.

Absolutely. On that, there's no disagreement. It's just that some continuity obsessives like us are a little gun shy about pinning anything down right now due to the prolonged nature of the current uncertainty over continuity. This is the longest period of time since the mid-1950s when the exact shape of the DCU has been so unclear. That's pretty unprecedented.

[Restingvoice]

Absolutely. On that, there's no disagreement. It's just that some continuity obsessives like us are a little gun shy about pinning anything down right now due to the prolonged nature of the current uncertainty over continuity. This is the longest period of time since the mid-1950s when the exact shape of the DCU has been so unclear. That's pretty unprecedented.

So it's a pretty big deal huh.

Which period has the tightest continuity?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

People forget, but Bart was always immune to temporal alterations. No matter what changes happen to the timeline, he remains the same.

Since Flashpoint was revealed to be nothing more than a timeline change, this could very well be the case if they decide to go that way.

I think it may turn out to be more than that. In The Flash, the future is unchanged and still remembers the Pre-Flashpoint history, which means that this is more than just someone altering the timeline. If you alter the past to change the present, that should have altered the future as well, but that doesn't appear to be the case with the Flashpoint/New 52.

There's more than meets the eye to all this, me thinks.