Examples of Pre-Flashpoint Canon Reasserting Itself in the DC Universe

[Dataweaver]

Similar to what seems to have been done with the Justice League origin: as I understand it, something along to the pre-Flashpoint origin is back in continuity, and the N52 origin has been retconned to be a more recent reunion of (most of) the original lineup, with Cyborg's role being retconned as him being an already established hero (with his connection to the original Teen Titans restored) who got a New Gods upgrade due to the event. I could see Zero Year similarly retconned.

And more generally, I'd prefer solutions that keeps as much history as possible, including post-Flashpoint elements. For instance, as much as I liked how Superman Reborn established a new history that nominally included elements of both pre- and post-Flashpoint, I wish it had gone a lot further: for instance, I would have rather they had kept something akin to the early N52 Action Comics and its Golden Age influences instead of the Superman Movie homage we got, as Superman's Metropolis debut.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Similar to what seems to have been done with the Justice League origin: as I understand it, something along to the pre-Flashpoint origin is back in continuity, and the N52 origin has been retconned to be a more recent reunion of (most of) the original lineup, with Cyborg's role being retconned as him being an already established hero (with his connection to the original Teen Titans restored) who got a New Gods upgrade due to the event. I could see Zero Year similarly retconned.

Has that actually been established? If so, where?

[Frontier]

Has that actually been established? If so, where?

Not concretely, but it's easy to assume based off of how Superman: Reborn depicted the origin and how Cyborg has been portrayed around some of the other Titans characters lately.

[bat39]

I wouldn't be so sure to jump to that conclusion, if only because I'm struggling to think of a single story arc that really held the place as the definitive and undisputed best Batman origin story arc before Year One. Batman's origin had been revised a bit from its original telling in Detective #33 before Year One came along, but YO was the first time I believe that an origin arc for Batman was 1) an actual arc spanning several issues as opposed to flashbacks in a single issue and 2) so universally well-received and deemed essential to the character.

But that's just my takeaway on the matter.

I would argue that Year One is the foundational text of the modern Batman as we know him. As such, its historical significance supercedes the issue of whether or not it is currently 'canon'.

That said, I am all for Year One being reinstated as the official origin, with Zero Year being retconned to either fit in during Year One or to be set shortly after it.

The battle with the Red Hood Gang can be set sometime during Year One. The blackout and the fight with Dr. Death, followed by Riddler's plan to turn Gotham into a wasteland could occur sometime after Year One.

There's actually quiet a lot in both stories that doesn't overlap. Year One doesn't deal with Wayne Enterprises' or any villains ala Red Hood, Dr. Death or Riddler. Zero Year doesn't deal with Gordon's personal life, Falcone or any other Gotham mobsters, or Selina Kyle

A few contradictions do remain. The exact circumstances of Bruce Wayne's return to the public eye. The nature of his early vigilante activities. What happened just before the bat crashed through the window (if it was indeed a real bat and not a hologram). But I'm sure these can be resolved one way or another - much like how some of the contradictions of Superman's post-Reborn continuity have been resolved.

Here's one way I would set up the chronology-

Bruce Wayne returns publicaly to Gotham, but immediately becomes a recluse. He and Alfred work out of Wayne Manor initially. Bruce starts going out as a vigilante in Gotham's East End and it is during his first night out in the streets that he has his first encounter with Selina Kyle. Given how badly that episode goes, Bruce starts ramping up on his tech and sets up shop in the brownstone. The Red Hood Gang starts becoming active during the day, and Bruce fights them using various Mission Impossible-style disguises. The Red Hood Gang bombs the brownstone and Red Hood One has his encounter with Bruce. Bruce then heads back to Wayne Manor, bruised and beaten, and the bat crashes through the window, giving him the inspiration to become Batman.

His original suit is the Year One suit and he starts by waging a one-man war on the Falcone mob and forging his alliance with Harvey Dent. This is when the warehouse ambush by the GCPD happens, Batman's first real setback. After he recovers, he wears a new more advanced suit, the 'Zero Year' outfit. His first major victory is confronting the Red Hood Gang at the Ace Chemical Factory, which is also when Bruce returns to the public eye. He continues to deal with the Mob, parallel to Jim Gordon's efforts, and first encounters Catwoman. Then, nearly a year after his debut, the blackout occurs, followed by the city turning wild due to Edward Nygma's plans. Batman defeats the Riddler. In the aftermath, the city is being rebuilt and a new era begins for Gotham. Bruce becomes friends with Gordon, who's now Police Commissioner, while as Batman he also forms his alliance with Gordon. Then the Joker strikes for the first time...

[Coco Loco]

Detective # 994 does reference a scene from Year One, but it also references Jim Gordon catching the Wayne murders as a Gotham cop, which is contrary to Year One.

I think the blended approach is the one DC’s going for. Year One and Zero Year are both canon, but perhaps not every detail of either story.

[The Darknight Detective]

Detective # 994 does reference a scene from Year One, but it also references Jim Gordon catching the Wayne murders as a Gotham cop, which is contrary to Year One.

I think the blended approach is the one DC’s going for. Year One and Zero Year are both canon, but perhaps not every detail of either story.

I agree and was to be expected, IMO.

[Frontier]

Detective # 994 does reference a scene from Year One, but it also references Jim Gordon catching the Wayne murders as a Gotham cop, which is contrary to Year One.

I think the blended approach is the one DC’s going for. Year One and Zero Year are both canon, but perhaps not every detail of either story.

I agree that this is what DC is going for, which is probably for the best.

[James Hunter]

This may well be old news (I've only just caught up on my comic reading for the last month or so!) but JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK has confirmed SHADOWPACT happened (which is cool, I always liked that title).

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Young Justice #1 basically says that Peter David's Young Justice is back in continuity.

[Lee]

Young Justice #1 basically says that Peter David's Young Justice is back in continuity.

You keep on doing this. An issue will reference one thing being back in continuity and you act like the entirety of everything connected to it is officially canon again. It makes keeping track of the confirmed changes very difficult.

[Frontier]

DC acting like certain continuity back and saving the details for later. Business as usual .

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

You keep on doing this. An issue will reference one thing being back in continuity and you act like the entirety of everything connected to it is officially canon again. It makes keeping track of the confirmed changes very difficult.

Well, what else are they going to do? Bendis is not going to straight up have Bart say “Young Justice, the team as written and illustrated by Peter David and Todd Nuack from 1998 to 2003, is back!” He simply says that Young Justice is back and common sense dictates that it is THAT Young Justice because, well, that’s the only Young Justice to ever exist in the comics. It’s the only one we have as a reference.

[Lee]

Well, what else are they going to do? Bendis is not going to straight up have Bart say “Young Justice, the team as written and illustrated by Peter David and Todd Nuack from 1998 to 2003, is back!” He simply says that Young Justice is back and common sense dictates that it is THAT Young Justice because, well, that’s the only Young Justice to ever exist in the comics. It’s the only one we have as a reference.

The only thing that's been revealed is that there was a previous iteration of Young Justice. That doesn't mean that the entirety of Peter David's run, every single story, is in continuity again. The current Wonder Girl is Zeus' granddaughter, so that's already one thing that's different from before.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The only thing that's been revealed is that there was a previous iteration of Young Justice. That doesn't mean that the entirety of Peter David's run, every single story, is in continuity again. The current Wonder Girl is Zeus' granddaughter, so that's already one thing that's different from before.

Again, the only Young Justice we have to go on is the one from Peter David’s run. So unless they explicitly say that it was a different Young Justice, then that is the only one we have as a reference. So yes, I will count it as them bringing it back into continuity because more likely than not, that was their intention.

[Lee]

Again, the only Young Justice we have to go on is the one from Peter David’s run. So unless they explicitly say that it was a different Young Justice, then that is the only one we have as a reference. So yes, I will count it as them bringing it back into continuity because more likely than not, that was their intention.

The general idea and team roster? Sure. But the entire run, every single story? Did they meet Freedy Freeman/CM3? Did The Ray keep an eye on them? Did they have an adventure where the JSA turned into infants? Was Cassandra Cain Batgirl?