Examples of Pre-Flashpoint Canon Reasserting Itself in the DC Universe

[KoriandrJean]

"There are some aspects of pre-Flashpoint continuity that I hope to never see again. DCU Rebirth has the potential to be the best of both timelines."

Yep.

Ted Kord could remember getting shot. That would play up some good tension between the living Maxwell and Kord. Could make for a good story.

I think we all know what this is about. New 52 was not doing good and old fans felt alienated and were dropping out, not buying comics. Rebirth is here to bring them back and keep new 52 readers. So far, so good . . . so far.

I'm not going to argue about timelines and continuity. Call it what you want. I hope everyone comes out happy. As long as D.C. is doing good, they will keep pumping out old material. That's the stuff that I dig.

Max Lord hasn't been seen since the end of Justice League International: Generation Lost ...

[colonyofcells]

Maxwell Lord was seen in the new 52 Omac title which also had a crossover with Frankenstein. Maybe in rebirth, Maxwell and Ted will love each other.

[Factor]

Lord also appeared in Grayson as Checkmate's leader.
I'd kill for a version of Checkmate more similar to Rucka's. The whole power structure was much more interesting than Lord basically being the onlyone in charge.

[KoriandrJean]

Lord also appeared in Grayson as Checkmate's leader.
I'd kill for a version of Checkmate more similar to Rucka's. The whole power structure was much more interesting than Lord basically being the onlyone in charge.

So, what happened to him and Checkmate? Especially since Dick Grayson has retired from the organization?

[Buried Alien]

You literally have a double-spread which shows Barry transforming into New 52 Barry and the Pre-Flashpoint DCU transforming into the New 52 DCU.

This is one thing I appreciated from FLASHPOINT that COIE and its aftermath never gave us back in the 1980s: it explicitly showed the moment of transition from the old continuity to the new continuity. As of the final panel of COIE, the Pre-COIE status quo of the majority of the characters was still intact. The changes rolled in months or, in some cases, years later, and happened off-panel.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[KoriandrJean]

This is one thing I appreciated from FLASHPOINT that COIE and its aftermath never gave us back in the 1980s: it explicitly showed the moment of transition from the old continuity to the new continuity. As of the final panel of COIE, the Pre-COIE status quo of the majority of the characters was still intact. The changes rolled in months or, in some cases, years later, and happened off-panel.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Anybody got a screenprint, please?

[Lee]

Anybody got a screenprint, please?

http://www.mylatestdistraction.com/m...Timestream.jpg

[KoriandrJean]

http://www.mylatestdistraction.com/m...Timestream.jpg

Thanks!

Is it just me, or did it not seem that a lot of what was promised didn't pan out?

[Frontier]

Thanks!

Is it just me, or did it not seem that a lot of what was promised didn't pan out?

Well, it seems clear that a lot of what was (haphazardly) planned for the New 52 didn't pan out, at least as well as DC may have intended.

[upgrayedd]

Reading Doom Patrol ( great book), they seem to be pretending everything New 52 related to the Doom Patrol never happened. They just continue where Giffen left off in his pre-flashpoint run.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Reading Doom Patrol ( great book), they seem to be pretending everything New 52 related to the Doom Patrol never happened. They just continue where Giffen left off in his pre-flashpoint run.

Yeah, I've noted that too.

[KoriandrJean]

Upgrayedd may have a point here; is it possible that DC is totally ignoring not just New 52, but also Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis as well?

Because, if so, that would explain the situation with Ted Kord quite nicely ...

[Dataweaver]

DC is absolutely not ignoring New 52; they're using it as the baseline for Rebirth, which is “New 52 plus those pre-Flashpoint elements that we like but got thrown out by New52”.

But yeah, it appears that most of the 00s, including Infinite Crisis, aren't among those elements that Rebirth is trying to reintroduce. Which is fine by me; I'm of the opinion that there was little from the 00s worth salvaging. The last era of DC publishing that I actually felt good about was the late 90s and very early 00s, running roughly from Morrison's JLA in 1997 to the end of Young Justice in 2003. Arguably every element that's getting reintroduced dates from no later than 2003.

[bat39]

DC is absolutely not ignoring New 52; they're using it as the baseline for Rebirth, which is “New 52 plus those pre-Flashpoint elements that we like but got thrown out by New52”.

But yeah, it appears that most of the 00s, including Infinite Crisis, aren't among those elements that Rebirth is trying to reintroduce. Which is fine by me; I'm of the opinion that there was little from the 00s worth salvaging. The last era of DC publishing that I actually felt good about was the late 90s and very early 00s, running roughly from Morrison's JLA in 1997 to the end of Young Justice in 2003. Arguably every element that's getting reintroduced dates from no later than 2003.

At this point its difficult to predict precisely what DC is doing. But I do feel that pre-Flashpoint returning is going to be more than just adding some pre-Flashpoint elements to the New 52 continuity.

The universe we'll finally end up with will almost certainly not be any of the pre-Flashpoint continuities in their entirety...but it will certainly be a lot more like the pre-Flashpoint canon than the New 52...except with the New 52 stuff, for the most part, having happened.

Look, at the end of all this, we're going to end up with a world where Clark and Lois are married, where Wally was once Kid Flash and is now a Flash, where there are at least two distinct 'generations' of Teen Titans, where the JSA were once active in WW2 and have returned to the present-day in some form, where Wonder Woman was born of clay and where Jason met Batman while stealing the wheels of the Batmobile. Among other things. Some specific details may vary, some stories may no longer be canon (even if elements from those stories are reintroduced as canon in new stories), but broadly the look and 'feel' of the DCU will be more akin to pre-Flashpoint than anything else.

In fact, one might argue that the Rebirth universe will be the pre-Flashpoint DCU 'soft-booted' in much the way Batman was for the New 52. The broad milestone events mostly happened, some specific stories from the previous canon will continue to be referred to, and the overall tone and feel of the franchise will mostly stay the same. But there will be retcons and a few radical changes/developments as well to keep things fresh.

[Cmbmool]

Did anyone mentioned that issue of Rebirth Flash where Barry had a brief reminder of his original Death in COIE ?