Examples of Pre-Flashpoint Canon Reasserting Itself in the DC Universe

[phantom1592]

I think a bigger issue is that too many writers want to rewrite the same stories over again. You can have Batman meeting Dick Grayson for the first time and not be referenced just fine... but when you have 17 different VERSIONS of Batman meeting Robin or Catwoman or Joker... then it gets REALLY complicated trying to say 'it all happened'.


My favorite bit of continuity crazyiness….. Dick Grayson was Robin before Joker appeared. Some times he was even there fighting Red Hood before he was dropped in the Goop.


That has often been retconned to NOT happen anymore... and it makes it REALLY hard to have it both ways.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think a bigger issue is that too many writers want to rewrite the same stories over again. You can have Batman meeting Dick Grayson for the first time and not be referenced just fine... but when you have 17 different VERSIONS of Batman meeting Robin or Catwoman or Joker... then it gets REALLY complicated trying to say 'it all happened'.


My favorite bit of continuity crazyiness….. Dick Grayson was Robin before Joker appeared. Some times he was even there fighting Red Hood before he was dropped in the Goop.


That has often been retconned to NOT happen anymore... and it makes it REALLY hard to have it both ways.

When the stories exist in a history that has been nuked at least five times already, it's not as much of a problem for me to wrap my brain around the idea that the same foundational events happened multiple times in various different permutations to the same characters.

[upgrayedd]

soooo..... Alan Scott's lantern.....

[Thor-Ul]

... And all those international superheroes...

[Bored at 3:00AM]

And it appears that Johns is also trying to backdoor in his old Black Adam stories from JSA and 52 into the DCU without negating the Shazam reboot.

[bat39]

I think a bigger issue is that too many writers want to rewrite the same stories over again. You can have Batman meeting Dick Grayson for the first time and not be referenced just fine... but when you have 17 different VERSIONS of Batman meeting Robin or Catwoman or Joker... then it gets REALLY complicated trying to say 'it all happened'.


My favorite bit of continuity crazyiness….. Dick Grayson was Robin before Joker appeared. Some times he was even there fighting Red Hood before he was dropped in the Goop.


That has often been retconned to NOT happen anymore... and it makes it REALLY hard to have it both ways.

Well, I think in cases where there are obvious contradictions, things need to be set in stone.

Obviously, the Kents can either be alive when Clark becomes Superman, or dead. There are no two ways about that. Ditto with whether Dick was Robin before the Joker showed up, or he wasn't.

Of course, you can make an exception with stories that are supposed to be set outside 'normal continuity', or which have a kind of 'loose continuity' status. Or if they are one-off stories that don't seriously affect a bunch of other stories.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Well, I think in cases where there are obvious contradictions, things need to be set in stone.

Obviously, the Kents can either be alive when Clark becomes Superman, or dead. There are no two ways about that. Ditto with whether Dick was Robin before the Joker showed up, or he wasn't.

Of course, you can make an exception with stories that are supposed to be set outside 'normal continuity', or which have a kind of 'loose continuity' status. Or if they are one-off stories that don't seriously affect a bunch of other stories.

Yes, I think certain benchmarks need to be established so creators know where the goal post are when creating their stories.

Basic stuff like when the Kents died, and if Robin was with Batman when the Joker fell into the acid should qualify because those are key events upon which the entire continuity is based. Granted, if those events change because somebody came up with a better idea, go with it, but make damned sure it actually is a better idea and, if it is, then stick to it until somebody comes up with something better.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

And Justice League #1 blows the doors off and definitively establishes that nearly all previous members of the League are now back in continuity.

[Frontier]

Sometimes i have to respect how much of a mess DC continuity is .

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

So, something interesting popped up in Deathstroke #32 that I didn't even really realize the significance of at first glance, but it turns out to be pretty important. So, this issue introduces a new character, Human Dynamo, but it turns out he was a member of a team that has a history in the DCU: The Justice Experience.




For those who don't know, in Pre-Flashpoint canon, the Justice Experience was sort of billed as a transitionary team between the retirement of the Justice Society and the debut of the Justice League. In story, they were essentially heroes that ran around in the late 60s and 70s of the DCU (though their first published appearance was in the late 90s). Now, the reason that their existence is actually kind of important is because, well, you see that gold guy with the purple cloak in both panels? He went by the name "The Bronze Wraith" but was in actuality Martian Manhunter. The Bronze Wraith was just one of J'onn's earliest superhero identities. So, this issue, along with the first issue of Justice League, seemingly reestablishes that MM is a hero with a long history in the DCU as opposed to the five-minute Leaguer he was in the New 52. Now all we need is that founding status back and we're good...

[Bored at 3:00AM]

So, something interesting popped up in Deathstroke #32 that I didn't even really realize the significance of at first glance, but it turns out to be pretty important. So, this issue introduces a new character, Human Dynamo, but it turns out he was a member of a team that has a history in the DCU: The Justice Experience.

Awesome news. I always liked the idea of this short-lived counterculture superhero team

[Atlas]

Cyborg needs to be retconned out of the JL as a founding member and return as a founding member of the Titans. I'd much rather John Henry Irons established as a founding member and/or replacement of Vic on the JL. He's a fantastic character that's criminally underused and has tremendous potential as the tech/armored hero. I also love the idea that Steel is someone inspired by Superman to become a hero who eventually takes his place alongside Superman.

[phantom1592]

Cyborg needs to be retconned out of the JL as a founding member and return as a founding member of the Titans. I'd much rather John Henry Irons established as a founding member and/or replacement of Vic on the JL. He's a fantastic character that's criminally underused and has tremendous potential as the tech/armored hero. I also love the idea that Steel is someone inspired by Superman to become a hero who eventually takes his place alongside Superman.

That would require Superman to have died before the Justice League was formed... I don't care for THAT idea. Giving back Vic's past only to take away John's isn't the answer.

I would rather they quit screwing around with the past. 7 heroes who happen to look white (sometimes) despite the fact that only 3 are actually human isn't the end of the world. If they want PoC in the league... put them in, but stop trying to pretend that they were there all the time.

[Atlas]

That would require Superman to have died before the Justice League was formed... I don't care for THAT idea. Giving back Vic's past only to take away John's isn't the answer.

I would rather they quit screwing around with the past. 7 heroes who happen to look white (sometimes) despite the fact that only 3 are actually human isn't the end of the world. If they want PoC in the league... put them in, but stop trying to pretend that they were there all the time.

I'm with you completely. J'onn is green and one of a many non-humans is plenty of diversity, though DC (like most companies today) is all about tokenism, or at the very least, appearing diverse for the sake of sales.

Hadn't thought of the Death of Superman; I don't like that idea, either.

[Korath]

Just wanting to drop the fact that Mandrakk, June Robbins and Robin the Toy Wonder have appeared in The Unexpected #2.