What are your thoughts on Uncanny Avengers' status among the X-titles?

[Mr. Brightside]

Actually, a large part of the X-Men stories in the early 2000s by people like Morrison and Claremont were about the growth of mutant culture. The reason that didn't continue was that it was all destroyed. By Wanda. Then she used her speech in UA to mock that loss of culture.

No one remembers Jumbo Carnation ;-;

[scusemeprincess]

Actually, a large part of the X-Men stories in the early 2000s by people like Morrison and Claremont were about the growth of mutant culture. The reason that didn't continue was that it was all destroyed. By Wanda. Then she used her speech in UA to mock that loss of culture.

i feel like the growth of mutant culture in all those issues wasn't really mutant. wasn't really separate from other culture.
even if a jacket has holes for four arms.

[Kisinith]

but don't you think it's best if they really just represent mutants? and the stories actually take on the mutant situation as what it is, in that fictional universe?

By saying that you are missing the whole point behind what a metaphor is about. It was designed as a platform to speak about these issues and thats one of the core things that has elevated the X-Men through the years. And no not every story needs to be about it, but it is exactly what UA was supposed to be about.

[Sea Hound]

but don't you think it's best if they really just represent mutants? and the stories actually take on the mutant situation as what it is, in that fictional universe?

Nope. Probably comes down to personal opinion, but for a great many people the x men represent the struggle of the oppressed against injustice. It's not the only theme in the books, but take it away, and they're just another superhero team. Explains why the x men have appealed to a wider demographic over the years.

[scusemeprincess]

Right except you really can't have a comic about the word N****r, or f*gg*t however you can use the term mutie. The whole idea behind a metaphor is that you can talk about an issue without directly talking about it.

right but in 2014 we don't want the xmen to be about that kind of weakness. there are plenty of ways to talk about these things without mutants being in the picture. it aint the sixties.

Yeah, no Respecting each other, living peacefully together, coexisting thats what Xaviers dream was about not assimilation. Assimilation is about denying or removing distinctions rather than respecting them. Also Mutants in the MU very clearly do have a culture, one based upon shared expirences and shared burdens.

the culture just isn't specific to them in any way.
i think havok's speech is an afront that calls assimilation to mind, only if you think of mutants as unpeople. mutants are people with powers. there's nothing but the x-gene separating them.
they aren't aliens.

[Sea Hound]

By saying that you are missing the whole point behind what a metaphor is about. It was designed as a platform to speak about these issues and thats one of the core things that has elevated the X-Men through the years. And no not every story needs to be about it, but it is exactly what UA was supposed to be about.

I keep posting almost the same reply as you Kisinth, at almost the same time. Not copying, honestly.

[scusemeprincess]

Nope. Probably comes down to personal opinion, but for a great many people the x men represent the struggle of the oppressed against injustice. It's not the only theme in the books, but take it away, and they're just another superhero team. Explains why the x men have appealed to a wider demographic over the years.

see i actually want to know more about this scifi fictional mutant situation in this fictional universe. not our metaphors that attach useless baggage to it.

[scusemeprincess]

By saying that you are missing the whole point behind what a metaphor is about. It was designed as a platform to speak about these issues and thats one of the core things that has elevated the X-Men through the years. And no not every story needs to be about it, but it is exactly what UA was supposed to be about.

i think UA is supposed to be about how we don't have to do that anymore

[Sea Hound]

i think UA is supposed to be about how we don't have to do that anymore

Perhaps that's why people who respond to that aspect of the X-Men loathe Remender's uncanny Avengers. Because he's attempting to dismantle something precious to them. I don't normally get upset by comics, and I dropped this one after #14, because it was making me irate.

[scusemeprincess]

that makes sense

[Sea Hound]

that makes sense

I occasionally have a moment of clarity.

[Kisinith]

i think UA is supposed to be about how we don't have to do that anymore

The problem is that you don't see the value in the Metaphor, much like how RR has said he feels and truthfully thats fine not everything works for everyone. However that is not a universal thing and I think you will find that a large number of the X-Men fans will disagree with you. You are after all talking about throwing away one of, if not the most important thing that seperate X-Men from other superhero comics. You are talking about stripping them of the very thing that their identity was built upon

"The X-Men are hated, feared and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants," "So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry and prejudice."
This was the guiding principal Chris Claremont had, its his quote and that what you want stripped away and on that issue I couldn't disagree more. See the thing with a metaphor is we are not talking about the plight of African Americans or gays or any other persecuted group in the X-Men but you can relate what they are going through to those groups, those issues and it adds far more than it takes away. I can't think of a worse thing you could do to the X-Men than to take their identity away

[scusemeprincess]

kisinith that's just kind of toxic in the amount of things it overlooks and ignores to make that metaphor work. that guiding principle is no longer (never was) the only thing driving the franchise.

[Kisinith]

right but in 2014 we don't want the xmen to be about that kind of weakness. there are plenty of ways to talk about these things without mutants being in the picture. it aint the sixties.

I do, I'm a teacher in a special needs school, I see these kind of racial, sexual and gender discrimination issues far more frequently than you'd imagine. Its sad but the country is nowhere near as far removed from those issues as you might think.

the culture just isn't specific to them in any way.
i think havok's speech is an afront that calls assimilation to mind, only if you think of mutants as unpeople. mutants are people with powers. there's nothing but the x-gene separating them.
they aren't aliens.

Congratulations, you just made a classic assimilation speech, probably unintentionally. Its not about them being unpeople, its about accepting that they are different, and that those differences are ok. Accepting that differences exist that they are no better, no worse. That they don’t need to be viewed as the same but deserve to be viewed as equal.

[Mr. Brightside]

Its not about them being unpeople, its about accepting that they are different, and that those differences are ok. Accepting that differences exist that they are no better, no worse. That they don’t need to be viewed as the same but deserve to be viewed as equal.

;-; ;-; ;-; *slow but growing applause*