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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    It's an important point to realise that any citizen of the MU is basically living in Syria, with bombs raining down on them as they try to go about their daily lives. Anybody living in that kind of battle zone, constantly, would jump at the chance to have predictive justice to shoot down those planes as they appear. Anybody in the Second World War would have grasped at any advantage they could possibly have over the enemy, be it Dam buster tech, or Howling Commandoes doing sabotage, or, help escaping scientists, atomic bombs, U2 missiles, laser beams, vibrational weapons to explode bodies. Do you see why people always attack mutants, hate super heroes, rejoice when the Hulk is killed, bring out the SHRA or MRA, send Sentinels to keep mutants surrounded? I think it's worth realising the MU is a terror environment, and in some respects, the ANAD post-CWII is a welcome respite from the constant threat of house destruction and sudden death. The MU citizens are like ants getting stood on by inconsiderate giants just traipsing along blind to the mortality rate they cause all around them.

    I can't see why the humans are not aggressively destroying Inhuman pods as they appear and just wipe out Crystals team every time they try to intervene. The Inhuman population growth after Inhumanity is just more Syrian bombers over their cities.
    because those humans are hopeful that they themselves are secretly one of the chosen; who will go through terrigenesis. it's yet to be seen if the Inhumans reputation will take a hit. remember that Cyclops is actively smearing them; via mental press.
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 11-08-2016 at 07:28 PM.

  2. #32
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I think when you're in a position where your entire planet faces destruction every couple of months or so, those issues become significantly less important.
    Though no less wrong.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    One of the things I have overlooked about CWII is how brutal this event has been without the Mark Millar face smashing. As a general-run story you would never see Rhodey, She-Hulk and Hulk eliminated off the playing field so thoroughly like we got this Event. Sneakily, Bendis slipped in these deaths and injuries as evidence Death doesn't take a holiday in Events. We see our heroes consistently slip out of dangerous situations to be ready for their next appearance next issue, but in Events like this, someone removes the invulnerability clause in their contracts, and suddenly, you see characters beat up to within the edge of their life, or just plain killed, like one of those detective movies that kill all the characters one by one.
    I wouldn't say it's that brutal. Even then the Civil War I tie-ins had more nuance, and better world building. Also, it was more brutal.

    - Johnny Storm beat into a coma
    - Speedball's entire ordeal, and transition into Penance
    - The beating Parker took when he defected
    - Low level heroes forced to retire to live their lives, and/or protect their families, from public backlash
    - All those orphans of Atlantean spies

    As a whole CWI is far superior in every way.

  4. #34
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Well, "superior" in relative terms .

    I'd say both events were bad and harmful in their own way and indicative of larger issues at Marvel.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    It's an important point to realise that any citizen of the MU is basically living in Syria, with bombs raining down on them as they try to go about their daily lives.
    That's one way to portray it, and a legitimate way, but another way to look at it is that supervillain attacks are just part of everyday life in a superhero city, and most people don't really worry about them much. Maybe they even enjoy the superhero vs. supervillain fights and the smashed buildings as part of the fun of living in the city.

    Either way can work, it just depends on which way the writer chooses to portray it. The ordinary people in a superhero universe don't necessarily see superhero violence as the equivalent of, say, street crime.

  6. #36
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    If there's one thing the citizens of the MU are known for, it's their opinions changing on a dime to serve a story .

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    I wouldn't say it's that brutal. Even then the Civil War I tie-ins had more nuance, and better world building. Also, it was more brutal.

    - Johnny Storm beat into a coma
    that was just karma. notice that Johnny Storm was insulting the New Warriors (he and Nita used to date) before that bottle hit him. he was basically agreeing w/ the crowd; not realizing that they didn't see any distinction between the Warriors and any other costumed hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    - Speedball's entire ordeal, and transition into Penance
    he was his own worse enemy during that mess. the reality tv show was a stupid idea. Penance was even dumber. he should have "fallen on his sword" and, publically, apologized. even Squirrel Girl got tired of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    - The beating Parker took when he defected
    he could have walked away. instead, he attacked Iron Man. I really don't get his defection. the motive seemed to be entirely selfish. that doesn't seem in-character for Peter.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    - Low level heroes forced to retire to live their lives, and/or protect their families, from public backlash
    can you really retire from a hobby? those low level heroes were basically cosplaying. they put their families in danger by dressing up, in the first place. and a number of them were dangerous psychopaths i.e. Thunderclap and Typeface.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    - All those orphans of Atlantean spies
    I still have no idea what that was about.

  8. #38
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I still have no idea what that was about.
    Suicide squad Atlantean sleeper agents that blew up something in the US (or they were killed in battle), as I recall.
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  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    can you really retire from a hobby? those low level heroes were basically cosplaying. they put their families in danger by dressing up, in the first place. and a number of them were dangerous psychopaths i.e. Thunderclap and Typeface.
    Firestar was among them. An ex-Avenger!

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Firestar was among them. An ex-Avenger!
    so what? her powers gave her cancer. and she was supposed to be focusing on college, anyways.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Suicide squad Atlantean sleeper agents that blew up something in the US (or they were killed in battle), as I recall.
    I guess I was wondering why this event triggered the sleeper agents.

  12. #42
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    that was just karma. notice that Johnny Storm was insulting the New Warriors (he and Nita used to date) before that bottle hit him. he was basically agreeing w/ the crowd; not realizing that they didn't see any distinction between the Warriors and any other costumed hero.



    he was his own worse enemy during that mess. the reality tv show was a stupid idea. Penance was even dumber. he should have "fallen on his sword" and, publically, apologized. even Squirrel Girl got tired of him.



    he could have walked away. instead, he attacked Iron Man. I really don't get his defection. the motive seemed to be entirely selfish. that doesn't seem in-character for Peter.



    can you really retire from a hobby? those low level heroes were basically cosplaying. they put their families in danger by dressing up, in the first place. and a number of them were dangerous psychopaths i.e. Thunderclap and Typeface.



    I still have no idea what that was about.
    His defection was based on his principles, namely the idea that in America, people shouldn't get locked up forever in the Negative Zone, with no opportunity for a hearing or a trial in a court of law where they could defend themselves and their actions in front of a judge and jury, for not following a law that they believed to be unjust. Hell, joining Iron Man was the more selfish action, because it was largely motivated by a sense of personal fealty that shouldn't have outweighed his sense that registering his identity with the government, the same government that had been more than willing to hire super-villains and other morally dubious people for morally dubious aims, especially after the times that someone like Norman Osborn or Venom got ahold of it and used it to target his loved ones as payback for foiling them or whatever personal wrong they felt he did them just by existing, was a huge mistake. In fact, what did Doctor Octopus do when he found out who Spider-Man was after all those years of fighting him? He attacked the school Peter was teaching at, while class was in session. Oh, and Peter was just going to leave when he realized he couldn't morally support or condone what Tony was doing anymore. It was Tony that intercepted him with every intent of keeping him from leaving by any means he could, including the virus he had hidden in the Iron Spider Armor to shut it down if Peter was no longer willing to comply with his orders.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    His defection was based on his principles, namely the idea that in America, people shouldn't get locked up forever in the Negative Zone, with no opportunity for a hearing or a trial in a court of law where they could defend themselves and their actions in front of a judge and jury, for not following a law that they believed to be unjust. Hell, joining Iron Man was the more selfish action, because it was largely motivated by a sense of personal fealty that shouldn't have outweighed his sense that registering his identity with the government, the same government that had been more than willing to hire super-villains and other morally dubious people for morally dubious aims, especially after the times that someone like Norman Osborn or Venom got ahold of it and used it to target his loved ones as payback for foiling them or whatever personal wrong they felt he did them just by existing, was a huge mistake. In fact, what did Doctor Octopus do when he found out who Spider-Man was after all those years of fighting him? He attacked the school Peter was teaching at, while class was in session. Oh, and Peter was just going to leave when he realized he couldn't morally support or condone what Tony was doing anymore. It was Tony that intercepted him with every intent of keeping him from leaving by any means he could, including the virus he had hidden in the Iron Spider Armor to shut it down if Peter was no longer willing to comply with his orders.
    so if criminals started targeting the families of police officers, that means that the individual officers have been selfish? I'm just trying to understand your train of logic, here. because, from my perspective, Peter was living up to that "great power" mantra everyone associates him with. Doctor Octopus is a bad person. becoming a registered hero doesn't stop Peter from taking him down. it's just signaled to the public that he got training to take Ock down. he's accountable for what happens during said take down.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    so if criminals started targeting the families of police officers, that means that the individual officers have been selfish? I'm just trying to understand your train of logic, here. because, from my perspective, Peter was living up to that "great power" mantra everyone associates him with. Doctor Octopus is a bad person. becoming a registered hero doesn't stop Peter from taking him down. it's just signaled to the public that he got training to take Ock down. he's accountable for what happens during said take down.
    Took the words right outta my brain.

    Taking accountability in revealing yourself, rather than hiding behind a mask to avoid accountability, is taking responsibility.

    He just didn't agree with Tony's short-term methods.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    Took the words right outta my brain.

    Taking accountability in revealing yourself, rather than hiding behind a mask to avoid accountability, is taking responsibility.

    He just didn't agree with Tony's short-term methods.
    which is understandable. they were pressed for time (because of the Stamford incident). and one of the architects of registration was a skrull.

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