Civil War II #8 cover teases Iron Man's Final Fate

[TooFlyToFail]

which is understandable. they were pressed for time (because of the Stamford incident). and one of the architects of registration was a skrull.

The Skrull factor is a big one, but yeah, due ro public unrest, Tony was trying to accelerate the registration process to avoid more Johnny Storm incidents. While amoral, using the Thunderbolts made sense. Starting a war with Namor would've forced the heroes and government to officially work together. With the state of the country, the government wouldn't trust the heroes without them registering. The Negative Zone was extreme, but we know that neither Reed, or Tony, would keep them there forever. At some point, they wouldn't have to keep them imprisoned to get them to sign.

Honestly, if not for Meik, or the Skrulls, Tony would've made things better in the long run. Not saying that Tony didn't make amoral decisions, but his way paved for a potentially better future than whatever Carol is trying to do.

By the way, does anyone remember why BP got involved?

[Michael Watkins]

The Skrull factor is a big one, but yeah, due ro public unrest, Tony was trying to accelerate the registration process to avoid more Johnny Storm incidents. While amoral, using the Thunderbolts made sense. Starting a war with Namor would've forced the heroes and government to officially work together. With the state of the country, the government wouldn't trust the heroes without them registering. The Negative Zone was extreme, but we know that neither Reed, or Tony, would keep them there forever. At some point, they wouldn't have to keep them imprisoned to get them to sign.

Honestly, if not for Meik, or the Skrulls, Tony would've made things better in the long run. Not saying that Tony didn't make amoral decisions, but his way paved for a potentially better future than whatever Carol is trying to do.

By the way, does anyone remember why BP got involved?

all I remember is him hosting Cap's side at one point; after warning Reed to pay more attention to his family. he ended up sniffing out Tigra as a pro-registration spy. maybe that or Bill Foster's death got him up off of the bench. he did pay for Bill's funeral, irrc.

[Ken Ashcroft]

I predict he'll be replaced by a teen girl and a supervillain. Just call it a hunch.

They can always bring back Teen Tony.

[jackolover]

I wouldn't say it's that brutal. Even then the Civil War I tie-ins had more nuance, and better world building. Also, it was more brutal.

- Johnny Storm beat into a coma
- Speedball's entire ordeal, and transition into Penance
- The beating Parker took when he defected
- Low level heroes forced to retire to live their lives, and/or protect their families, from public backlash
- All those orphans of Atlantean spies

As a whole CWI is far superior in every way.

Yes, CWI was far more brutal, and CWII felt less so, but, the evidence is there. Significant people did bite the dust in CWII and She-Hulk got injured far worse than Cap did in CWI, but Bendis in this was no Mark Millar in portraying it.

[jackolover]

That's one way to portray it, and a legitimate way, but another way to look at it is that supervillain attacks are just part of everyday life in a superhero city, and most people don't really worry about them much. Maybe they even enjoy the superhero vs. supervillain fights and the smashed buildings as part of the fun of living in the city.

Either way can work, it just depends on which way the writer chooses to portray it. The ordinary people in a superhero universe don't necessarily see superhero violence as the equivalent of, say, street crime.

We read these stories, and over decades we settle into a false sense of security regarding the state of the citizens of the MU. I know, I make that mistake myself, so being reminded of the reality of terror in a place like the MU is worth realising.

[MindofShadow]

Maybe they even enjoy the superhero vs. supervillain fights and the smashed buildings as part of the fun of living in the city.

I always thought it was telling that the people RAN towards the Thor v Malekith fight in The Dark World with their cell phones out

[Frontier]

They can always bring back Teen Tony.

At this point, Teen Tony would actually seem like a plausible plot development with the current Marvel .

[Michael Watkins]

I always thought it was telling that the people RAN towards the Thor v Malekith fight in The Dark World with their cell phones out

but that took place in England, right? they hadn't experienced the Chitauri destruction. those people were, for the most part, cowering.

[Huntsman Spider]

so if criminals started targeting the families of police officers, that means that the individual officers have been selfish? I'm just trying to understand your train of logic, here. because, from my perspective, Peter was living up to that "great power" mantra everyone associates him with. Doctor Octopus is a bad person. becoming a registered hero doesn't stop Peter from taking him down. it's just signaled to the public that he got training to take Ock down. he's accountable for what happens during said take down.

Took the words right outta my brain.

Taking accountability in revealing yourself, rather than hiding behind a mask to avoid accountability, is taking responsibility.

He just didn't agree with Tony's short-term methods.

As nobody in their right mind should have. We can debate whether registration was a good idea or not, but publicly unmasking, instead of just having his identity be confidentially known to the relevant authorities so that he could be legally called upon and licensed, was the staging ground for disaster. And when you start locking people up in an extradimensional prison where American laws, let alone Earth laws, don't extend and saying they'll be stuck in there until they cave in or for life, whichever comes first, you kind of lose the moral high ground.

which is understandable. they were pressed for time (because of the Stamford incident). and one of the architects of registration was a skrull.

The Skrull factor is a big one, but yeah, due ro public unrest, Tony was trying to accelerate the registration process to avoid more Johnny Storm incidents. While amoral, using the Thunderbolts made sense. Starting a war with Namor would've forced the heroes and government to officially work together. With the state of the country, the government wouldn't trust the heroes without them registering. The Negative Zone was extreme, but we know that neither Reed, or Tony, would keep them there forever. At some point, they wouldn't have to keep them imprisoned to get them to sign.

Honestly, if not for Meik, or the Skrulls, Tony would've made things better in the long run. Not saying that Tony didn't make amoral decisions, but his way paved for a potentially better future than whatever Carol is trying to do.

By the way, does anyone remember why BP got involved?

Maybe he would have, but tell that to the people he and Reed betrayed and screwed over after years of fighting side by side with them, over a load of politicized bulls***. Even if Tony did make things better in the long run, who's to say someone like Norman Osborn, but less obviously and less publicly known to be bats*** crazy, wouldn't have hijacked it in the long run if the people or the politicians thought registration wasn't going "far enough" to regulate superheroes' actions? That aside, the whole thing was a house of cards built on betrayal and broken promises and friendships, and that was no foundation to build a lasting order on.

[Michael Watkins]

Maybe he would have, but tell that to the people he and Reed betrayed and screwed over after years of fighting side by side with them, over a load of politicized bulls***. Even if Tony did make things better in the long run, who's to say someone like Norman Osborn, but less obviously and less publicly known to be bats*** crazy, wouldn't have hijacked it in the long run if the people or the politicians thought registration wasn't going "far enough" to regulate superheroes' actions? That aside, the whole thing was a house of cards built on betrayal and broken promises and friendships, and that was no foundation to build a lasting order on.

you're leaving out the part where the government would have (guaranteed) implemented registration with or without Tony's aid. Tony made the grown up choice and tried to steer the ship. read that Civil War issue of WhatIf. next step was an armored Henry Peter Gyrich running things. and, to this date, Stark was the only one to try to stop the registration before it became law.

[Huntsman Spider]

you're leaving out the part where the government would have (guaranteed) implemented registration with or without Tony's aid. Tony made the grown up choice and tried to steer the ship. read that Civil War issue of WhatIf. next step was an armored Henry Peter Gyrich running things. and, to this date, Stark was the only one to try to stop the registration before it became law.

I understand the basic principle of "I did what I had to do." It's just not something I'm ever going to really agree with, and let's not forget the other part of the What If? for Civil War . . . what if Steve and Tony stopped being so stubborn, listened to each other's concerns and fears, and came together to work out a solution that would be acceptable to everyone? What was the outcome there? Paradise, or the closest damned thing to it in a Marvel Universe.

All that aside, it is quite the 180 from Tony Stark's position at the end of the original Civil War to what looks to be his position after this Civil War.

[The Whovian]

??? but he's Marvel's Bruce Wayne.

Not. Even. Close.

[The Whovian]

Please. Tony has created things to help people medically. Created hospitals for the mentally handicapped and other things. The batwing and all of that aren't weapons?! Hell he uses kids as weapons.

Man, I don't know where to start on this. Okay, first, Bruce uses his wealth not only to fight crime, but he's also used it to not only help Gotham's community and its people, but also globally. Even if he was never Batman, his charitable work would be phenomenal on it's own merit.

Second, Batman does not use kids as weapons. Did Cap use Bucky as a weapon?

[The Whovian]

Now because of Bendis yeah. Batman's been doing it how long?!?!

So in your mind, there's a difference depending on the duration of time?

Also, we're talking about Tony freaking Stark. The same guy that killed billions of people from other planets to save his own and justify it. And you're worried about Batman "using kids as weapons"? Good golly.

[Michael Watkins]

Not. Even. Close.

dead parents - check
insane wealth - check
playboy - check
hyper intelligence - check
self-made hero w/o powers - check
extensive file of ways to nerf his allies - check
butler - check

seems close, to me.