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  1. #61
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    dead parents - check
    Yes, but it's not just "well, this is the same, so we can check this box" sort of thing. Tony's parent's death don't drive him. He's Iron Man because he wants to be. Batman's parent's death drove him, almost to the point of obsession, to put on the mantle of Batman and fight crime and bring justice to the unjust, and also to make sure his parent's death never happens to someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    insane wealth - check
    Again, yes they are both insanely wealthy. But what do they do with their wealth? That's the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    playboy - check
    Nope. Tony IS a playboy. Bruce being a playboy is a complete act.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    hyper intelligence - check
    Nope. Tony is one of the smartest minds in the MU. He's a horrible tactician. Bruce, on the other hand, is not super intelligent like Tony or Reed. It's not even close.
    Bruce is, however, one of the best, if not THE best tacticians in the DCU. Big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    self-made hero w/o powers - check
    Tony uses a suit of armor and can fly. Bruce is a street fighter. Not the same at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    extensive file of ways to nerf his allies - check
    Bruce would only use his files against his teammates and friends if they went rogue or insane. Tony would use them if they simply disagreed with him. Totally different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    butler - check
    Alfred is Bruce's butler in name only. He's a father figure to Bruce and his Robins. Jarvis really is just a butler to Tony.

    Oh, and Alfred would kick the snot out of Jarvis.
    But those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.--Isaiah 40:31

    “Everything’s impossible until somebody does it.” – Batman

    “You want weapons? We're in a library! Books! Best weapons in the world!"--The Doctor

  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Well, Alfred is a butler in name only in certain adaptions, but for the most part he is really a butler and does butler things on-top of helping Bruce.

    Jarvis has always been more The Avengers' butler then Tony's butler, even if he's ostensibly employed by Tony and has a lot of loyalty towards him.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, Alfred is a butler in name only in certain adaptions, but for the most part he is really a butler and does butler things on-top of helping Bruce.
    Alfred is Bruce's butler, but he's more of a father figure and partner in his war on crime.
    But those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.--Isaiah 40:31

    “Everything’s impossible until somebody does it.” – Batman

    “You want weapons? We're in a library! Books! Best weapons in the world!"--The Doctor

  4. #64
    Spectacular Member ishikabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    Please let him die. Tony is such a dislike able character.
    he sucks. dunno why Marvel's pushed him so hard.

  5. #65
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishikabe View Post
    he sucks. dunno why Marvel's pushed him so hard.
    They couldn't even do that much .

  6. #66
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishikabe View Post
    he sucks. dunno why Marvel's pushed him so hard.
    Because Robert Downey, Jr.'s portrayal made the character popular in the movies and Marvel wanted to translate that into comics sales by making him its new flagship character over Spider-Man, who --- literal Faustian pact aside --- hasn't morally compromised himself to the level that Iron Man has. Sadly, and I do genuinely mean that, movie popularity doesn't necessarily translate to moviegoers actually buying the comics the characters appear in, so Marvel's decided it might as well go back to the drawing board.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    Yes, but it's not just "well, this is the same, so we can check this box" sort of thing. Tony's parent's death don't drive him. He's Iron Man because he wants to be. Batman's parent's death drove him, almost to the point of obsession, to put on the mantle of Batman and fight crime and bring justice to the unjust, and also to make sure his parent's death never happens to someone else.



    Again, yes they are both insanely wealthy. But what do they do with their wealth? That's the difference.



    Nope. Tony IS a playboy. Bruce being a playboy is a complete act.



    Nope. Tony is one of the smartest minds in the MU. He's a horrible tactician. Bruce, on the other hand, is not super intelligent like Tony or Reed. It's not even close.
    Bruce is, however, one of the best, if not THE best tacticians in the DCU. Big difference.



    Tony uses a suit of armor and can fly. Bruce is a street fighter. Not the same at all.



    Bruce would only use his files against his teammates and friends if they went rogue or insane. Tony would use them if they simply disagreed with him. Totally different.



    Alfred is Bruce's butler in name only. He's a father figure to Bruce and his Robins. Jarvis really is just a butler to Tony.

    Oh, and Alfred would kick the snot out of Jarvis.
    let me put it another way, he's Bruce Wayne with a Marvel twist. DC is a huge fantastic fictional universe. Marvel, generally, tries to bring things down to earth and show you what might really happen. so instead of Bruce Wayne being some next level human spurred on to selflessly fight crime with the cover of being a billionaire playboy, they have him be an actual billionaire playboy who also has enough of a messiah complex to use his fortune to become a superhero. they've shown it time and again, Tony Stark staring off into the distance at a ritzy social gathering because his mind is actually on improving and protecting the world. the drinking and womanizing is what he does to manage stress. they took Bruce's obsession with justice and turned it into an actual chemical dependency and control freak nature. then compare the dynamic between Bruce (the Knight) and Superman (the boyscout) with Stark and Captain America. Clark and Steve Rogers are easily comparable. they both represent ideals and old-fashioned values. idealism is thrown out when you talk about Bruce or Tony. they both know how dark society can get. they occupy similar spaces in their respective universes. it just so happens that the universes are drastically different. if Marvel has a Big 3, it's Cap, Iron Man, and (now) Captain Marvel. and I'm going by cinematic universe standards. they are purposely contrasted with DC's big 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Because Robert Downey, Jr.'s portrayal made the character popular in the movies and Marvel wanted to translate that into comics sales by making him its new flagship character over Spider-Man, who --- literal Faustian pact aside --- hasn't morally compromised himself to the level that Iron Man has. Sadly, and I do genuinely mean that, movie popularity doesn't necessarily translate to moviegoers actually buying the comics the characters appear in, so Marvel's decided it might as well go back to the drawing board.
    Spider-man and Iron Man are, in no way, competition for one another; even with Peter stealing Stark's gimmick in the books. movie Spider-man's target audience is clearly younger. he's more like the MCU's answer to the X-Men and the Flash.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  9. #69
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Because Robert Downey, Jr.'s portrayal made the character popular in the movies and Marvel wanted to translate that into comics sales by making him its new flagship character over Spider-Man, who --- literal Faustian pact aside --- hasn't morally compromised himself to the level that Iron Man has. Sadly, and I do genuinely mean that, movie popularity doesn't necessarily translate to moviegoers actually buying the comics the characters appear in, so Marvel's decided it might as well go back to the drawing board.
    I don't think they even made that much of an effort to really make him the new flagship.

    We got like six issues of Bendis and Marquez, which is the kind of team you put on a flagship book, but then everything got derailed by Civil War II and Marvel forcing Bendis to setup Iron Man spinoffs that would ultimately take Tony off the board.

    And then you have him in Civil War II written as a major tool to counterbalance the fact that he's ostensibly write about the issues with using Ulysses and thus the closest thing to a "hero" in the event, so it's almost backfiring as much as Carol's major focus is.

    One could say Bendis has been as reductive to the Iron Man franchise as he's been additive, which is kind of an odd thing to see for a writer who was supposed to turn a title into a flagship.

  10. #70
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Spider-man and Iron Man are, in no way, competition for one another; even with Peter stealing Stark's gimmick in the books. movie Spider-man's target audience is clearly younger. he's more like the MCU's answer to the X-Men and the Flash.
    I was referring more so to the comics, where Spider-Man has been practically synonymous with the Marvel brand for decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think they even made that much of an effort to really make him the new flagship.

    We got like six issues of Bendis and Marquez, which is the kind of team you put on a flagship book, but then everything got derailed by Civil War II and Marvel forcing Bendis to setup Iron Man spinoffs that would ultimately take Tony off the board.

    And then you have him in Civil War II written as a major tool to counterbalance the fact that he's ostensibly write about the issues with using Ulysses and thus the closest thing to a "hero" in the event, so it's almost backfiring as much as Carol's major focus is.

    One could say Bendis has been as reductive to the Iron Man franchise as he's been additive, which is kind of an odd thing to see for a writer who was supposed to turn a title into a flagship.
    Five issues, actually. After that, the rest of the series immediately went to Mike Deodato, Jr., who while not being bad at all was a step down from Marquez in my opinion. And yeah, Civil War II pretty much put Tony in the same position Steve Rogers was in during the original Civil War, where he's ostensibly in the right when you think about it objectively but undermines his argument by being an unreasonable and possibly emotionally unstable extremist. Of course, now it looks like he's gonna end up the same way Steve did in the original Civil War --- in a box, six feet under.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #71
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Five issues, actually. After that, the rest of the series immediately went to Mike Deodato, Jr., who while not being bad at all was a step down from Marquez in my opinion. And yeah, Civil War II pretty much put Tony in the same position Steve Rogers was in during the original Civil War, where he's ostensibly in the right when you think about it objectively but undermines his argument by being an unreasonable and possibly emotionally unstable extremist. Of course, now it looks like he's gonna end up the same way Steve did in the original Civil War --- in a box, six feet under.
    And it just somehow comes off better when Cap does it, or maybe that's just because it's Cap and he's so hard to dislike compared to Tony ?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishikabe View Post
    he sucks. dunno why Marvel's pushed him so hard.
    Love your avatar ishikabe
    But those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.--Isaiah 40:31

    “Everything’s impossible until somebody does it.” – Batman

    “You want weapons? We're in a library! Books! Best weapons in the world!"--The Doctor

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    let me put it another way, he's Bruce Wayne with a Marvel twist.
    He's not even that. Read some Iron Man comics and then Batman comics and I guarantee you won't see anything similar about them. If the two of them were in the same universe, Bruce would extremely dislike Tony. And vice versa.
    But those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.--Isaiah 40:31

    “Everything’s impossible until somebody does it.” – Batman

    “You want weapons? We're in a library! Books! Best weapons in the world!"--The Doctor

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    seems absurd to kill off a character right after a fundamental change like retconing his biological parents. Think they would milk that up that development more first.

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Thing is that Cap was really fighting for most people and superheroes. The first Civil War actually affected all superheroes, whoever they were, they all had to register, and Tony was to blame for it. CW2? Pratically everyone there is into that mess because they want to, and Tony's actions are more because he blames Carol and Ulysses for Rhodey's death than for his beliefs.

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