Do you believe healthcare is a human right?

[MindofShadow]

You didn't just call them fat, though, or even just unhealthy. You called them "fatty fat face" and went after soccer moms explicitly.

I don't know about hateful, but that's not impassioned or objective.

I see enough of my job's rhetoric get into the heads and come out the mouths of colleagues, though, I get how easy it can be. I did appreciate that you left your conclusions open.

Fair enough, that wasn't the nicest description in the world.

[CaptCleghorn]

I

am

not

talking

about

type

1


At all. Type 1 DM is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo different.

It's sweet you know that.

My point, though, is that Type 2 has not been shown to be caused by lifestyle or weight. A correlation is supported when the added resistance goes beyond the Type 2's system's ability to handle the carbs. And that's all people have. A correlation. For all you know, the Type 2 diabetes could be causing the weight gain and lethargic attitude.

Should people exercise and eat better? Sure. I don't think you should be drawing the line for what's appropriate for that either.

[MindofShadow]

It's sweet you know that.

My point, though, is that Type 2 has not been shown to be caused by lifestyle or weight. A correlation is supported when the added resistance goes beyond the Type 2's system's ability to handle the carbs. And that's all people have. A correlation. For all you know, the Type 2 diabetes could be causing the weight gain and lethargic attitude.

the correlation is strooooong though.

And with the bolded... if we are rolling with that "excuse," we will just agree to disagree and move on. Lethargy doesn't cause people to drink Coke by the literal half gallon

[CaptCleghorn]

the correlation is strooooong though.

And with the bolded... if we are rolling with that "excuse," we will just agree to disagree and move on. Lethargy doesn't cause people to drink Coke by the literal half gallon

Do I buy the bolded as fact? No. But I do know that high blood sugars increase thirst and hunger as well as making one feel like they're in cement shoes. If A and B have a strong positive correlation, does A cause B or does B cause A? I know enough to state that blaming the diabetic is wrong. It's possible losing a hundred pounds or cutting a thousand calories a day off one's diet will return normal levels and that's great. I'm for getting people to help themselves. I also think they're worthy of seeing an endo and nutritionist in order to maintain proper levels.

Every joke, every off-hand comment about diabetes affects the millions who deal with it. The education isn't there and every comment that feeds stereotypes hurts people who need help and aren't getting it.

[t hedge coke]

My main takeaway from this conversation and how it's going is that, everything else aside, it's obvious that with medical advice and care, whoever this sample diabetic is, no matter how fat or not, regardless of Coke intake, they're better off than if they were deprived of his medical aid. Entirely.

[Vic Vega]

oooooo I like this.


and btw, I like this despite the fact that people like me who have a high body mass index despite having low bodyfat percentages (aka moderate to heavily muscled individuals) generally get punished by stuff like this

Adding for clarity:

In Japan the patient doesn't get punished(don't have pay more into a heath care system and they don't lose coverage.) For failing one of these tests and making no effort to fix it/get healthy, his or her JOB gets fined instead.

Japanese culture is different from in US, but even over there a dude who is actively costing his/her company money can be
expected to get sacked eventually.

So there isn't an active punishment for failing one of these tests in play in Japan. Just the understood threat
of possible termination.

[Darkspellmaster]

Yes! It's needed here in the states and also could help people who are in need of operations, particularly kids who's parents can't afford them.

[dancj]

Lethargy doesn't cause people to drink Coke by the literal half gallon

Depression can though.

Even if the unhealthy lifestyle causes the diabetes, you don't know what causes the unhealthy lifestyle in the first place.

Doctors should be giving patients the treatment they need (which does include improving their lifestyle) not judging them.

[Kyer]

No, healthcare is not a human right. Freedom to breathe, eat, drink, move about in public spaces... Yeah, those I would consider human rights. (And I say this as someone who would now be considered elderly low income in a family consisting of nothing but elderly low-middle income.) Under no circumstances would I be right to demand some medical person take care of me or mine without recompense. Ask? Sure. Get help from a charity or relations/friends? Okay. But demand for 'free'? Chutzpah.

Insisting that others take care of your wants or whims without promise of recompense other than recompense forced from the unwilling is selfish, imho. Besides, if I have to take $1 from Joe Schmo to pay my bill...how will Joe Schmo pay his bill without similarly taking from Jane Doe...who then has to take from Mike Smith...and so forth.

Mandatory Freebies are awfully expensive for all but a select few.

What galls is that I've had to take multiple hits to my pride due to not having enough money of my own to help my parents due to.... taxes. That's right. We could have helped my parents and my relatives on our own if not for high taxes and inflated prices caused by high 'it's for the children!' taxes and selfish lawsuits made by selfish people....never mind actual corporate greed (because that exists too.)
The taking of my money for decades by the government is why now I have to....ask for some of that money back now....and hope that they give any of it.

Dang it...I used to be able to give to charities of my own free will...and it felt very good to do so. Now the government has taken nigh over and does things badly (I'm talking to you, Veterans Administration!)

It's dehumanizing. It's wrong.

It's depressing.

[Shawn Hopkins]

No, healthcare is not a human right. Freedom to breathe, eat, drink, move about in public spaces... Yeah, those I would consider human rights. (And I say this as someone who would now be considered elderly low income in a family consisting of nothing but elderly low-middle income.) Under no circumstances would I be right to demand some medical person take care of me or mine without recompense. Ask? Sure. Get help from a charity or relations/friends? Okay. But demand for 'free'? Chutzpah.

Insisting that others take care of your wants or whims without promise of recompense other than recompense forced from the unwilling is selfish, imho. Besides, if I have to take $1 from Joe Schmo to pay my bill...how will Joe Schmo pay his bill without similarly taking from Jane Doe...who then has to take from Mike Smith...and so forth.

Mandatory Freebies are awfully expensive for all but a select few.

What galls is that I've had to take multiple hits to my pride due to not having enough money of my own to help my parents due to.... taxes. That's right. We could have helped my parents and my relatives on our own if not for high taxes and inflated prices caused by high 'it's for the children!' taxes and selfish lawsuits made by selfish people....never mind actual corporate greed (because that exists too.)
The taking of my money for decades by the government is why now I have to....ask for some of that money back now....and hope that they give any of it.

Dang it...I used to be able to give to charities of my own free will...and it felt very good to do so. Now the government has taken nigh over and does things badly (I'm talking to you, Veterans Administration!)

It's dehumanizing. It's wrong.

It's depressing.

Do you get Medicare? VA benefits?

[Supernature]

As a French guy, my answer is yes.

I was going to make exactly this comment.

[Malvolio]

Do you get Medicare? VA benefits?

Exactly. How can the VA get the overhaul that they need without tax dollars? It's hypocritical to complain about taxes being too high and then in the next breath complain about government services being inadequate.

[Kieran_Frost]

Insisting that others take care of your wants or whims without promise of recompense other than recompense forced from the unwilling is selfish, imho. Besides, if I have to take $1 from Joe Schmo to pay my bill...how will Joe Schmo pay his bill without similarly taking from Jane Doe...who then has to take from Mike Smith...and so forth.

What galls is that I've had to take multiple hits to my pride due to not having enough money of my own to help my parents due to.... taxes. That's right. We could have helped my parents and my relatives on our own if not for high taxes and inflated prices caused by high 'it's for the children!' taxes and selfish lawsuits made by selfish people....never mind actual corporate greed (because that exists too.)
The taking of my money for decades by the government is why now I have to....ask for some of that money back now....and hope that they give any of it.

These two things contradict one another. Your taxes pay for roads, for police, for government, for hospitals, for sanitary clean-up, for traffic lights, for street lamps, for everything public and "free" to you. You can't label using taxes to pay for medical bills as "selfish" yet demand to pay less tax, and still have working roads, clean streets, safe neighbourhoods, etc.

[t hedge coke]

Do you get Medicare? VA benefits?

How dare taxes be used to... do things for people. It's dehumanizing.

[MyriVerse]

I don't really accept the idea of "rights," per se, but there are things that are nice to have, and benefiting the health of others is one of them. Plus, we've advanced to a point where it is feasible.