Should the Question be ultra conservative to counter Green Arrow?

[LordTrump]

Barring a decent writer it couldn't work because people have difficulty actually portraying those they disagree with as anything but a caricature, as illustrated above.

For people such as this there is no way that anybody could possibly believe that unchecked welfare is counterproductive and incentivizes unemployment and single parenthood, no hero could possibly hold to traditional beliefs (both religious and non-religious) regarding marriage or abortion (btw are Matt Murdock and Helena Bertanelli still devout Catholics?), and none of these armed vigilantes could possibly be fond of the 2nd Amendment.

I follow politics fairly closely and one of the things I always find funny/annoying is when an author inserts their politics into the mouth of a character for whom it would be wholly inappropriate. Batman hating guns while being fine with missiles and bombs is always amusing, Green Arrow committing securities fraud was also entertaining, and who can count the number of times Wonder Woman has been used as the various authors' soap box.


All that said, my hope is that they keep politics as far away as possible from any book I'm reading.

Bertinelli must have been lapsed cuz she was like a female nightwing and slept with anything

[j9ac9k]

A lot of people wouldn't like it, but I think updating Ollie so that he's a Seattle hipster who is anti 1% could be interesting. (who else would have that facial hair nowadays? ) I think it would be keeping in the spirit of the O'Neal Ollie, but more relevant to today. And yes, some people will hate it - but it can be a good thing that his views would be more challenging than the polemics we got in "GL/GA." Why not be actually controversial? He doesn't have to be right all the time to be a hero or an interesting character. It could create some interesting discussion, especially nowadays with the internet.

[bat39]

I figure most heroes are conservative or conservative-leaning. They fight to preserve the status quo. We know the Justice League could make life on Earth substantially better for everyone, but they don't. Batman works with the authorities in Gotham (usually) to uphold law and order. Aquaman should be up in arms about climate change and environmental degradation, but he's not, and so forth. The heroes inspire, but they don't actually do much except punch bad guys.

You may have a point.

Then again, since when did fighting crime and upholding law and order necessarily label you exclusively as a 'right-winger'? Does that mean that left-wingers should support criminals and denounce law and order (granted, there are some strawmen who do, but that's hardly what a left-leaning superhero would be expected to do).

Again, as I said, the characters may be seen through political lens but I don't think they themselves should be stated as being 'conservative' or 'liberal' by definition.

Coming back to Batman - yes, he's a man who very much believes in law and order and fighting crime. And in his civilian identity he is a billionaire. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a 'right-wing' character or even self-identifies as a 'right-winger' or a 'conservative'. He's just a man propelled by childhood trauama and obsession (and in some interpretations, hope and optimism as well) to do certain things. What he does may be interpreted through a political lens, but Bruce isn't exactly fighting this crusade to uphold the 'right-wing' agenda.

[Outside_85]

Always thought this was an odd take for Hawkman of all people. Why pick him for that role?

Because in most of his modern depictions, Carter has gradually lost the Indiana Jones vibe he once had and just sort of replaced it with an 'ends justify the means' hard-nosed police officer type... which is kinda like certain conservative types who's policies aren't big on the soft issues.

[Lee]

Barring a decent writer it couldn't work because people have difficulty actually portraying those they disagree with as anything but a caricature, as illustrated above.

For people such as this there is no way that anybody could possibly believe that unchecked welfare is counterproductive and incentivizes unemployment and single parenthood, no hero could possibly hold to traditional beliefs (both religious and non-religious) regarding marriage

A good writer could absolutely write a fully rounded character with strengths and weaknesses who is dedicated to fighting crime, who also just so happens to believe that interracial marriage is immoral and should be made illegal.

I think that such a character would be a crappy super-hero.

[L.R Johansson]

A good writer could absolutely write a fully rounded character with strengths and weaknesses who is dedicated to fighting crime, who also just so happens to believe that interracial marriage is immoral and should be made illegal.

I think that such a character would be a crappy super-hero.

Well... we have seen the extreme version of this - Grant Morrison's "Overman" from Multiversity is a Superman who actually believes in Nazi ideals - who then preceded to make the world into a Nazi-utopia.

The result on the non-white population wasn't exactly pretty... But still, an interesting character for sure - wouldn't mind reading more about him. But yes, an utterly, utterly CRAPPY superhero - more an anti-villain than anything else.

[Sandy Hausler]

Heh. The JSA were FDR progressives. Seeing that view conflicting with modern-day progressive political beliefs could be a lot of fun.

I remember a line in an issue of El Diablo back in the 1980s (the Rafael Sandoval version), in which ED meets up with the Golden Age Vigilante, now an older man. Vigilante finds out that ED us a liberal Democrat and is taken aback, saying "I thought we were all law and order types," or words to that effect.

Sandy Hausler

[j9ac9k]

The JSA got to disappear during the Civil Rights era. Which side do you think they would have been on? (could be an interesting Elseworlds)

[Confuzzled]

Well... we have seen the extreme version of this - Grant Morrison's "Overman" from Multiversity is a Superman who actually believes in Nazi ideals - who then preceded to make the world into a Nazi-utopia.

The result on the non-white population wasn't exactly pretty... But still, an interesting character for sure - wouldn't mind reading more about him. But yes, an utterly, utterly CRAPPY superhero - more an anti-villain than anything else.

That just sounds like a juiced up Red Skull.

[BatmanJones]

Yea, but that wasn't what I would call a fair representation. He was a charicature of uncaring stereotypes from the things I've read of that run, and Green Arrow was always there to tell him how wrong he was in everything

It's bound to happen. The facts have a liberal bias.

[Prisoner 6655321]

This is a complicated question (no pun intended). My very short answer is “yes, but maybe not the Question”. As for the slightly more nuanced answer, here goes…

If by conservative you mean someone who believes in and works within the system? Cop, military, wealthy businessman, whatever... Yes, totally (and DC does have heroes like that). I think DC needs heroes like that just as much as it needs heroes on the left like the Green Arrow. If by "conservative" you're talking about someone who thinks gay conversion therapy is a good idea, that global warming is an illusion or that unregulated sweatshops are the way to go… That's a villain.

It should also be noted that while Ollie's solidly on the more progressive side of the fence, he's not really all that radical either. He's a rich boy playing Robin Hood. The “conservative” equivalent to that would be maybe The Flash, not some kinda jackboot (and I'm not implying all conservatives are “jackboots”). Ollie Queen may be on the left but he's no latter-day Alexander Berkman.

[bat39]

This is a complicated question (no pun intended). My very short answer is “yes, but maybe not the Question”. As for the slightly more nuanced answer, here goes…

If by conservative you mean someone who believes in and works within the system? Cop, military, wealthy businessman, whatever... Yes, totally (and DC does have heroes like that). I think DC needs heroes like that just as much as it needs heroes on the left like the Green Arrow. If by "conservative" you're talking about someone who thinks gay conversion therapy is a good idea, that global warming is an illusion or that unregulated sweatshops are the way to go… That's a villain.

It should also be noted that while Ollie's solidly on the more progressive side of the fence, he's not really all that radical either. He's a rich boy playing Robin Hood. The “conservative” equivalent to that would be maybe The Flash, not some kinda jackboot (and I'm not implying all conservatives are “jackboots”). Ollie Queen may be on the left but he's no latter-day Alexander Berkman.

Exactly.

These are superheroes, not political radicals after all.

[Robotman]

It's bound to happen. The facts have a liberal bias.

Thankfully for the current crop of conservatives they've built up an immunity to facts.

[dancj]

* that preserving the family / the heterosexual way of life is important?

That kind of talk sends up big warning signs for me about someone's character.

Would you feel so comfortable talking about preserving the white way of life?

[CaptCleghorn]

I remember a line in an issue of El Diablo back in the 1980s (the Rafael Sandoval version), in which ED meets up with the Golden Age Vigilante, now an older man. Vigilante finds out that ED us a liberal Democrat and is taken aback, saying "I thought we were all law and order types," or words to that effect.

Sandy Hausler

The JSA got to disappear during the Civil Rights era. Which side do you think they would have been on? (could be an interesting Elseworlds)

The JSA (and the rest of DC's Golden Age heroes) are open to interpretation as to their political leanings. Stories in the Golden Age were simplistic and never really got too far in expressing a hero's political views and there were few, if any, situations where two heroes disagreed on an issue unless one of them was mind controlled. Even in the Roy Thomas days, the All Stars were all pro FDR, which is why I called them New Deal progressives.

In the DC Two Thousand story, the JSA is brought forth and is appalled by the social standards of the day. That's a more modern "realistic" look at them. Seriously, I'd hope they'd be a mixed bag. A good number of DC's Golden Age heroes were millionaires and might not be crazy about FDR's programs. Then again, the JSA was the first team to feature two women characters and it took a while for the Silver Age teams to catch up to that. The Vigilante didn't want to follow in his father's footsteps as a sheriff and went into performing. Alan Scott owned a broadcasting company. The Crimson Avenger was the publisher of a progressive newspaper. It's a generalization, but these heroes among others would be exposed to a more liberal (for then) view.

Time jumping gives you folks who may be OK with male homosexuality (progressive for the forties) but seeing a cis man and a transgendered man in bed on Shameless might be something they'd be concerned about. Assuming the heroes aged through the years, we might assume McCarthy would have pissed them off anyway. They had no problems with Dinah or Diana on the team. I can only speculate of how they'd deal with race relations. Both Vigilante and Crimson Avenger had Chinese sidekicks. Considering both of these guys were on a team with Green Arrow, it's conceivable the the Seven Soldiers of Victory were the flaming lefties of the time. But they'd probably still demand a man remove his hat indoors.

As with the vast majority of Golden Age lore, we have few modern sensibilities to go by. We speculate and chat. And that's OK.