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  1. #16
    Fantastic Member AlphaMale's Avatar
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    Well, here's what I think I know. We all know how fast Surfy is. We all know how fast Wally is.

    As far as Waverider, I suppose I was always under the impression that his ability to move through time was based off his speed...but in reviewing some scans I have on hand...there is nothing stating as much. There is this:

    Armageddon Inferno (92) 1.1 - Waverider a part of time stream.jpg


    Pending something more concrete about Waverider, if what Pendaran says is true, then he (Nu Atom) is faster than everyone else here mentioned. Very interesting.

    EDIT: I think I had this in mind when appraising Waverider's speed:

    Zero Hour 4.5 - Wally moving at ultimate speed.jpg
    Last edited by AlphaMale; 11-20-2016 at 08:51 PM.
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  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Pending something more concrete about Waverider, if what Pendaran says is true, then he (Nu Atom) is faster than everyone else here mentioned. Very interesting.
    It's more that.. okay, Atom does a superspeed thing. Then he otherwise notes "I exist beyond the idea of superspeed, lol", and demonstrates this by doing up the Flash. So basically his benchmark for his statement is however fast NuBarry is.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    EDIT: I think I had this in mind when appraising Waverider's speed:
    Ehhh. Wally hadn't really become Wally West, Speed God at that point. In fact that experience is part of what would help build him towards Wally West, Speed God.

  4. #19
    Fantastic Member AlphaMale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    It's more that.. okay, Atom does a superspeed thing. Then he otherwise notes "I exist beyond the idea of superspeed, lol", and demonstrates this by doing up the Flash. So basically his benchmark for his statement is however fast NuBarry is.
    Okay. So...Nu Barry within the last year finally decided he wouldn't "hold back anymore"....and can enter time on speed. And as you noted Captain Atom, based off the showing where he lolnopes Barry's speed put's him in a higher tier-ish speed sort of thing. So, Cap really is faster than anyone else here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Ehhh. Wally hadn't really become Wally West, Speed God at that point. In fact that experience is part of what would help build him towards Wally West, Speed God.
    I see. As I recall, that is also true. That scan from the Zero Hour stuff came right around Terminal Velocity in Flash, so....yeah.

    So, if we categorize this fight just from the perspective of reaction speed it would be from slowest to fastest....1) Waverider, 2) Wally West/Silver Surfer (take your pick) and 3) Captain Atom from the Nu 52 leading the pack, given the, "speed is irrelevant to me at this point", type of thing.

    What about Cap't esoteric stuff compared to Surfy? I mean, to me, durability I would think goes in favor of Norrin; I don't think Cap can endure planet busters. Speed in favor of Nu Nathaniel makes that irrelevant though, which leaves the question mark: "does Cap really have the esoterics to take out Norrin?". From his title I remember him struggling to control his powers....but, there was the implication that his future self, "Chrono Mota", well surpassed that....although....I don't recall firm feats.

    Thoughts?

    EDIT: never mind. If nu Cap can control the speed force as easily as demonstrated in the Future's End stuff, why not the power cosmic?
    Last edited by AlphaMale; 11-20-2016 at 09:39 PM.
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  5. #20
    Fantastic Member AlphaMale's Avatar
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    So, really....looks like a win for Captain Atom.
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  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Okay. So...Nu Barry within the last year finally decided he wouldn't "hold back anymore"....and can enter time on speed. And as you noted Captain Atom, based off the showing where he lolnopes Barry's speed put's him in a higher tier-ish speed sort of thing. So, Cap really is faster than anyone else here.
    I don't know, for me that then raises the issue of, so did he do that to a Barry Allen who was at that point slower than he later would be?

  7. #22
    Fantastic Member AlphaMale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    I don't know, for me that then raises the issue of, so did he do that to a Barry Allen who was at that point slower than he later would be?
    Mm, I don't think so. The account of Atom essentially laughing off Barry's speed and otherwise manipulating the speed force occurred in Future's End, set five years in the future from the writing of that book. If I follow correctly, that means Barry's self doubt is already reconciled, albeit, "five years earlier" (give or take) in issue 47 of nu Flash.

    C'thulu earlier said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Given Barry's previous issues at using the speed force at speeds approaching lightspeed, without any real resolution as far as I remember.....
    Which is the impression that I was under. But upon inspection, those space/time anomalies weren't anything Barry was doing, but caused by another entity. I'll have to find the issue. In later issues of Nu Flash, we see Barry's statement here in his fight with Thawne:

    Flash 46.4 vol 3 - Thawne vs Barry Allan.jpg

    Then this:

    Flash 47.1 - Barry speed based time power.jpg

    and

    Flash 47.2 - Barry speed based time power.jpg

    I'll have to double check the time frame here. Been a while since I read the issues, but I gather Nu Atom may well be faster than the others here.
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  8. #23
    BANNED The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Waverider appears to speed through time here

    http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads...rman073p09.jpg

    As for what an infinite army of linear men can do , aside from the fact that they can freeze time Waverider can also bring in an infinite army of Captain Atoms in microseconds

    http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads...rman073p12.jpg

    Again, intrinsic speed and not "time activated" or whatever

    http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads...rman073p20.jpg
    Last edited by The Dork Knight; 11-21-2016 at 03:06 PM.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Waverider appears to speed through time here

    http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads...rman073p09.jpg
    He seems to do.. some kind of thing first as far as what's shooting out of his hand there, it feels less than clear. Like what the heck is that first panel?

    Again, intrinsic speed and not "time activated" or whatever

    http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads...rman073p20.jpg
    Sure but.. one tenth of a second fast. Everyone else here is faster than that.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Basically if I had to put my finger on my reserve to grant Waverider some vaster degree of superspeed more directly, it would come down to that it seems mostly like Waverider moves through time, but he's not doing it off of being so fast that he moves through time as a result, so much as that he's able to move through time, and his speed that we can suss out is otherwise how fast he moves while doing it, if you follow me. Like him trying to catch up to pre whoo hoo wizardly Flash powers Wally West and not /quite/ making it before he goes poof, or making his powers go at one tenth of a second, etc.

    It feels like this thing of nuance essentially.

  11. #26
    Fantastic Member AlphaMale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Basically if I had to put my finger on my reserve to grant Waverider some vaster degree of superspeed more directly, it would come down to that it seems mostly like Waverider moves through time, but he's not doing it off of being so fast that he moves through time as a result, so much as that he's able to move through time, and his speed that we can suss out is otherwise how fast he moves while doing it, if you follow me. Like him trying to catch up to pre whoo hoo wizardly Flash powers Wally West and not /quite/ making it before he goes poof, or making his powers go at one tenth of a second, etc.

    It feels like this thing of nuance essentially.
    LOL.

    Okay. I sincerely thought all four of these characters were generally in the same speed tier and finding out....not so much.

    So, the Waverider stuff....I'd have to agree. I cannot find a single thing that indicates Waverider's time travel ability is speed based. I mean, some not so clearly defined statements from which we could all speculate? Yeah, sure. But something definite.

    Mmm. Nope.

    So, probably opening up an enormous can of worms here but....Hunter Zolomon. His powers are not speed based, but simply that he exists disjointed from time...dude is always in the time stream

    Flash 219.1 - Zoom disjointed for time.jpg

    and then

    Flash 219.2 - Zoom disjointed for time.jpg

    Is it a stretch to say Waverider is similar in the way he employs his "move through the fourth dimension" powers? I mean, Waverider's time travel abilities really are not so clearly explained by anything I've read. It's very strange really. At any rate....

    Ugh.

    EDIT: and obviously, with Zolomon, scaling is employed in the way he makes god of speed Wally West look like a slow poke, so there is that.
    Last edited by AlphaMale; 11-22-2016 at 01:00 AM.
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